Pumapeople: Conventional Tuning Vs Won Nitrous - Pumapeople

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Conventional Tuning Vs Won Nitrous A comparrison of overlooked aspects of NA Vs WON

#41 User is offline   Noswizard 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 07-April 08

Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:19 PM

QUOTE
iv been converted!

Thanks God for that or should that be thank the Wizard for that? laugh.gif

QUOTE
or... (im really getting going now!) a small car for commuting, fit a small turbo engine, fit a bigger turbo & use nos to boost it through the 'lag' & then turbo takes over.... creating a more seamless power delivery.

That's one of many options we regularly accomodate

QUOTE
theres still the arguement of fitting a motorbike engine tho..... these can be expensive but then again so would running nos for a few years.....

There you go again!!! dry.gif
Here's a little story for you;
There are few people in the world more "driven" by the need for speed than I am and as proof of that my need lead to the WON product range.
Due to excessive demand for my systems in the early days, I had to do without a nitrous system on my car for a year or so.
Durring that time I was being repeatedly asked the same question "How long does nitrous last?" and my stock reply to that question is "Not long enough but I have customers who fill up every day and others that only fill up once every 3 months or so". Now we're all like big kids with a new toy, when we're given some extra power to play with, so I needed to know how much nitrous would be used AFTER the "new toy" scenario was over and the car was driven under "normal" conditions.
Eventually I was able to spare a system for my car, so I could carry out the experiment to find "an answer" to the most asked question of all time. Once the system was fitted, I went out every day with the intention of taking on ANY car that was up for a challenge but I would ONLY use the nitrous system when my normal power was not enough.
Even with that intent it was 2 weeks before I actually "NEEDED" nitrous to beat the other car.
Now I'm guessing you'll be thinking that I must have had an already quick car for that to be the case but the fact is that the reverse was the case, as it was a lowly 2.6 SD1 Rover, which are far from quick in standard trim.
On a "need to use" basis I determined that a nitrous bottle could easily last up to 3 months and on anyones scale of cost, that works out to be VERY CHEAP.
The problem with nitrous, is that it's SO IMPRESSIVE & GIVES SUCH A BUZZ that the temptations are to;
i) Use it just for the hell of it, even though normal power would easily achieve the goal
ii) Increase the power to the maximum the vehicle can handle (despite less being more than adequate) but the problem with that, is that you will only discover how much an engine can handle when something breaks.
Just for your interest the stock 2.6 SD1 Rover ran a standard 1/4 mile time of 22 secs but after a year of racing development using JUST nitrous (whilst leaving ALL other aspects of the car standard), I managed to cut that time to just 14.4 seconds and if I'd had more time, I'm confident I could have run under 14 secs.
To put this in perspective, a stock Porsche turbo will do well to run quicker than 14 secs, despite exagerated claims to run low 13s.

QUOTE
has anyone nos'd a hayabusa etc engine? (would you really need to tho....)

Yes we've supplied systems to MANY Busas and I'll be providing a system to one on Friday that has the potential to be the quickest Busa in Europe, possibly the world. wink.gif

QUOTE (happy-kat @ Apr 16 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nearly smile.gif I just gave it a small tweak

I think I've got it now and many thanks for the assistance, I may be the wizard of NOS but I know my limits and many computer related matters are outside them. Such a shame more people don't know their own limits, mentioning no names hey Jacko. dry.gif

This post has been edited by Noswizard: 16 April 2008 - 10:21 PM


#42 User is offline   Noswizard 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 07-April 08

Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Leighton @ Apr 16 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this thread just keeps getting better and better!! biggrin.gif i really need to look and have a ride in chris's car now! cool.gif Trev the arguements you have put across are seond to none, truly outstanding answers!

Glad you're enjoying it, I do try. rolleyes.gif

#43 User is offline   Noswizard 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 07-April 08

Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:24 AM

QUOTE
Triple combination of chemist, mechanic and engineer by training and experience and genetics.

That explains it.

QUOTE
Just from the top of my head I'd guess that you're getting a substantial decrease in cylinder temps if your blasting NOx into them, which ought to do good things for your knocking point.

Yes absolutely correct, (except for your chemical symbol for nitrous which should be N2O), that is another of the benefits that other tuning methods can't deliver and this is one of the reasons why a certain amount of nitrous can be added to an engine without retarding the timing, despite the flame speed being quicker.

QUOTE
Plus no need to hack the front end around fitting an intercooler or chargecooler setup and so on and so forth..

Nothing cools better than a shot of MINUS 128 degrees. ohmy.gif

QUOTE
I was making a light-hearted josh at the eldood rather than trying to poke holes biggrin.gif No matter which way you go about it, tuning cars is expensive in one way or another. But if cars were all about value for money this forum wouldn't exist.

I thought as much but some people may not have appreciated that, so I dealt with it anyway. Whilst I agree that all tuning costs, part of the reason for my original post was to dispel the myths about nitrous oxide and one of those is that nitrous fills are expensive, which if taken in isolation is true but when taken as part of the whole picture, is not the case.

Regards

Trev

#44 Guest_Tiggr_*


  • Group: Guests

Posted 17 April 2008 - 10:27 AM

Trev,

Chris treated me to a drive in his car last night. Couple of questions I've raised here and the following posts if you have a few mins.

ta

This post has been edited by Tiggr: 17 April 2008 - 10:28 AM


#45 User is offline   Noswizard 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 69
  • Joined: 07-April 08

Posted 17 April 2008 - 12:44 PM

Comprehensive responses provided. rolleyes.gif

#46 Guest_Tiggr_*


  • Group: Guests

Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:05 PM

Many thanks smile.gif

#47 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:53 PM

Nos system just bought off a certain auction site. Will proverbally buy new solinoids to play safe. I don't need the rpm activation module but various other sensors, purge valve and gauges will be handy. Set for 35bhp at the moment.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#48 User is offline   MichaelW 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 41
  • Joined: 10-January 12
  • Location:Leeds

Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:55 PM

View PostDogsbody, on 26 January 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Nos system just bought off a certain auction site. Will proverbally buy new solinoids to play safe. I don't need the rpm activation module but various other sensors, purge valve and gauges will be handy. Set for 35bhp at the moment.


Interesting, it might have been the kit I was looking at on there ;)

Fitting it all seems fairly straightforward enough, I'd probably just want someone to double check over my install once I'd done it.

I'd be interested in photos of how people have mounted the solenoids and where in the intake pipe they've mounted it etc.

This post has been edited by MichaelW: 26 January 2012 - 04:03 PM


#49 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostMichaelW, on 26 January 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

Interesting, it might have been the kit I was looking at on there ;)

Fitting it all seems fairly straightforward enough, I'd probably just want someone to double check over my install once I'd done it.

I'd be interested in photos of how people have mounted the solenoids and where in the intake pipe they've mounted it etc.


I can do a pretty tidy install on a puma if your interested in going that route...

I recommend anyone interested in Nitrous tuning to just buy a new Wizards of nos kit... the componants used are updated fairly regulaly with regards to seals etc etc... when you buy a second hand kit you'll almost certainly need to buy new wiring, get the solenoids checked and serviced with the latest ptfe coated seals (the chemicals in petrol are constantly changing and can, over time, react with the older seals).. also you'll need new high pressure nylon line. All of which adds up to a tidy sum when buying seperatly....

The solenoids should always be mounted as close to the delivery point as possible...

when i had mine fitted initially i wanted it all hidden, as so had the solenoids under the battery box area...since then iv'e re-fitted the whole system practically... iv'e had some clever little rotating mounts fabricated so the solenoids can now sit more effectivly above the intake.. :good:

Chris
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#50 User is offline   MichaelW 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 41
  • Joined: 10-January 12
  • Location:Leeds

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:13 PM

View Posteldoodarino, on 26 January 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I can do a pretty tidy install on a puma if your interested in going that route...


Good to know, thanks. Nottingham isn't too much further than Doncaster (where WON are based), I just didn't see why WON wanted the car for two days to do an install when I could probably do it in an afternoon.

#51 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:58 PM

The kit I have bought has braded hoses, which I prefer to the won nylon ones. Plus they can be reused. I will get it checked over on a rolling road once installed.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#52 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:00 PM

I'm a sparky by trade, so the control wiring, won't be a problem :)
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#53 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 26 January 2012 - 07:42 PM

View PostMichaelW, on 26 January 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Good to know, thanks. Nottingham isn't too much further than Doncaster (where WON are based), I just didn't see why WON wanted the car for two days to do an install when I could probably do it in an afternoon.


Yes, WON won't offer a 'same day' install as they need to allow time to fit and test and attend to other duties etc etc...

They prefer to have the car for three days generally speaking....

It takes more time than an afternoon to make a tidy job of it with some attention to detail... I fitted Mikecats system with the extreme controller in a full day.. we didn't get time to do the heater and transducer wiring, but it was all good to go at some point that day..

Rgds
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#54 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 26 January 2012 - 08:54 PM

Do you have a bottle heater and purge valve Chris ? I have been advised not to go over 50bhp, but I see you run 60. Any issues ? Thanks.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#55 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 27 January 2012 - 07:06 PM

yes, i run a heater wrap to bring the bottle to optimum psi

Don't bother with purge solenoid... when using WONs Nylon line there's little call for it... if your using braided however (wheich is totally unsuitable by the way for smaller amounts of Nitrous delivery) then you may want to consider it, as the Nitrous will lose density VERY quickly compared to smaller bore pipe, and the engine will be running very rich to lean as the gas is expelled from the Braided line...

I don't use the 60 jet size at the moment...quite happy with 25 or 50... when i did run 60 it was very quick indeed! i'd say a good WON system running 50 is Perfect! ideally with Progressive controller.... without the controller i'd be happy with the extra torque from the 25jets knowing it's a lot safer and you'll get a lot more per bottle..

The new X10 solenoids feature an integrated purge port which is a fantastic idea as you can hook up a purge without affecting the quality of the flow at all.. :good: the flow path of the liquid is just as critical as the density of the liquid! many people seem to miss this rather important concept.. :wacko:

Don't really know what kit you've got graham, if your solenoids are NOT the WON ones then, no idea what jet sizes will be right for you, as they will not be the same.... if that is the case you'll have to read your plugs very carefully, and experiment using upper rpm first and then re-test lower bit by bit... don't attempt to do a static test on a US kit... could be curtains..lol :beer: :lol:

Rgds

Chris
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#56 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:04 PM

I have an American system from Nitrous Oxide Systems NOS, the daddy company of them all.
I had dealings with them 25 years ago when I picked up some bits for a mate when I was in California.
Once the kit is fitted, I'm intending to take the car to Bristol where the gas refill company is and they have a rolling road and set up facilities for Nitrous.
I'm also adding a fuel pressure switch, so the NOS cannot be turned on if the fuel pressure is low.

The system was being used on a Scooby for anti lag.
150 was just to good to turn down as a buy it now.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

Share this topic:


  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic