[mrpike]

Has anyone fitted a supercharger to a 1.7 puma instead of going down the turbo route. Any info on this would be most welcomed, costs, where to obtain parts and fitting methods. Cheers all mrpike

[300bhpton]

Has anyone fitted a supercharger to a 1.7 puma instead of going down the turbo route. Any info on this would be most welcomed, costs, where to obtain parts and fitting methods. Cheers all mrpike

I suspect being as we are in the UK nobody would have done this. However in the US supercharging is a popular option. You can buy a supercharger kit for the Focus ST170 (they call it a SVT). It's a bolt on kit and can easily produce over 250whp, that's near 300bhp at the flywheel.

However for the inexperienced supercharging is maybe a bit of a mine field. For the automotive industry there are 3 main types of supercharger:

-Roots
-Twin Screw
-Centrifugal

The Roots and twin screw are what as known as positive displacement blowers. This means they are not rpm dependant and are capable of producing PEAK boost just off idle and in theory retaining it until the maximum rpms.

Centrifugal blowers are rpm dependant, and the faster the engine spins the faster the blower spins and thus the more boost it produces.

The most common type of blower used is the Eaton Roots style. As found on various Jaguars, Aston Martins, Mercs and the Mini Cooper S. However these types of superchargers actually don't compress they "blow" hence there name and where originally designed as air pumps for industrial use.

That aside on the correct application they can be quite efficient and offer plenty of low end grunt. So if you want to add muscle to a motor they work quite well. Example the Jagaur AJV8 makes 295bhp n/a, take the same engine add a Roots blower and you have 400bhp and a much wider torque band. These types of blowers are also fairly easy and cheap to buy 2nd hand, there are usually several on Ebay.

The downside to the Roots blower is its efficiency drops considerable the harder you push it. This lack of efficiency means a massive increase in air intake temps and ultimately less power.

Roots blower:





The solution is found in the twin screw blower. This design has been around for ages but its use is fairly limited. The Ford GT uses one on its 5.4 litre V8. This type of blower looks very similar to a Roots style blower externally, but it works quite differently inside. It is a true compressor and is much more efficient than the Roots with much higher HP potential. The downside is the cost.

Twin screw:





Lastly we come to the centrifugal blower. In reality these are just larger belt driven turbochargers. As a turbocharger is an "exhaust driven centrifugal supercharger" and was an adaptation of the centrifugal supercharger design. This type of supercharger is the most efficient in terms of compression and ultimately has the potential to produce the highest PEAK hp. The downside is you need to spin the motor fast to get the higher boost levels. This means you won't see much of an increase in lower end torque. Advantages are, they are generally easier to locate and install and are a cost effective alternative to the Roots design.


Centrifugal blower:






ProCharger offer a universal kit, which engine bay room permitting should be possible to fit to most cars. This would likely be easier than trying to find room for a Roots or Twin Screw blower.

ProCharger -
http://www.procharger.com/FORD/ford_auto.shtml

Twin Screw -
http://www.kennebell.net/index.htm
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/


In addition as the gearbox and driveline in the Puma is not built for high torque levels staying clear of large amounts of low end grunt may be an advantage making a centrifugal blower the ideal choice

However as there is no off the shelf kit for the Puma I possibly wouldn't look at supercharging as the most appropriate option in terms of cost. Supercharging has some great benefits and in reality offers some great on the road performance and manners (better than most turbo setups, due to driveability). But this kind of setup would require a fair amount of R&D.

Running a nitrous oxide kit would be no more risky and offer similar gains but would have the advantage off of the shelf products, available delaer installation and be more cost affective.


I also have no idea how well the stock Puma 1.7 lump handles boost, I suspect it must be able to take some but don't know what its limits are. Although remembering that psi is a measure of resistance and not airflow.


If you REALLY REALLY want a boosted setup then I'd go for a custom rear mount turbo setup. The main advantage of this is you can likely buy 90% of the parts you'll need 2nd hand from a breakers and it won't really need any fancy turbo manifolds to be fabricated and fitted.

They are essentially quite simple setups.

Get a suitable sized turbo (maybe a stock Impreza turbo as there are loads available for cheap). Cut off your rear muffler/silencer on your exhaust and attach the turbo instead. Plumb the hot side outlet of the turbo to the exhaust tail pipe. Add an air filter on the turbo cold side intake. Run a tube from the cold side turbo outlet to the intake manifold on the engine. Add an oil feed and some form of boost controller and away you go!

You'd need a tune as well to control a/f ratio.


Rear mount turbo setups:

http://www.ststurbo.com/magazine_articles

Twin turbo setup:


Single Turbo:



Downsides are, it won't make as much PEAK hp as a front mount setup, although this is rather a pointless point as it'll still be able to make more than enough power to wreck the engine and likely the transmission as well

It is also more likely to be more laggy. It's important not to confuse lag with boost threshold. Boost threshold is how much exhaust gas flow is required in order to spin the turbo fast enough to make boost. Easily converted into an rpm range. So a typical modern turbocharged car should see boot from 2000rpm. This being its boost threshold.

Lag is what happens after a stall period. If you take you foot off of the accelerator pedal at say 5000rpm you are closing the throttle plate. This builds up high pressure air between the turbo outlet and the throttle plate. This affectively stalls or slows the turbo down. Even if you then go to wide open throttle at 4000rpm (well within the turbo boost threshold) there will be a momentary lag before the exhaust gas flow is sufficient to spin the turbo at appropriate speed and for the turbo to re-pressurise the intake track and manifold.

Dump valves attempt to minimise this, as does correct turbo sizing but it is unavoidable unless you employ an anti-lag system. But these are generally detrimental to turbo/engine life, are costly to buy and run and ruin fuel consumption. So for the most part they are found exclusively on select racing and rally machines and not for road use.

As a rear mount turbo is further away from the engine it will have a lower exhaust gas velocity powering it. And will have a longer intake track to pressurise.

That aside, these systems have proven to work and work well for road use.


Sorry for such a long post, but as you can see there was a lot to say on the matter. Hope it helped…

[Turby]

To date, no one has successfully developed and installed a supercharger on a 1.7 puma engine, therefore you woul dhave to design it all yourself or pay someone to do it for you.

I'd go for a centrifugal type charger such as a Rotrex as its "relatively" easy to package into the engine bay. Don't forget you will also need a host of other things such as air cooler, uprated fuel system, uprated clutch and engine management to cope with it all.

[mrpike]

Has anyone fitted a supercharger to a 1.7 puma instead of going down the turbo route. Any info on this would be most welcomed, costs, where to obtain parts and fitting methods. Cheers all mrpike

Cheers 300bhpton just had a little look at your reply, looks very interesting, not got time at the moment to read it fully and digest it. Will read it later when I'm less stressed, thank's again mrpike

[eldoodarino]

wow...an awesome post...

get ya money out Mr. Pike

[mrpike]

I suspect being as we are in the UK nobody would have done this. However in the US supercharging is a popular option. You can buy a supercharger kit for the Focus ST170 (they call it a SVT). It's a bolt on kit and can easily produce over 250whp, that's near 300bhp at the flywheel.

However for the inexperienced supercharging is maybe a bit of a mine field. For the automotive industry there are 3 main types of supercharger:
SNIP

Just had the time to read your thread, it's full of good idea's and has certainly got my grey matter working overtime. I'm now very confussed, but I do like the idea of a rear driven turbo. Could it be fitted at the back of the flexipipe, which would gain higher exhaust pressures, anymore info on this method would be much appreciated, thanks for your thread, mrpike

This post has been edited by happy-kat: 22 May 2008 - 03:32 PM
Reason for edit: no need to repeat such a long post, i got lost ;)

[happy-kat]

fab post
any indea on a crude ball park figure?
Wonder if this would cost the same as going the Turbo route, though I suppose anythign done well is going to cost

[eldoodarino]

I suspect it would be just as costly to see it through to a reliable and satisfying result....

just the words 'Supercharger' sounds soooo cool...



we'll see

[PumaVoodoo]

There is no room at the end of the flexi pipe to fit a turbo

[PumaJay]

dont no if i heard wrong but apparntly somewhere out there on the market is a canversion kit to fit the mini cooper s super charger onto a zetec engine...

might be worth looking into

[eldoodarino]

i remember somone 'toying' with the possibility...

don't remember hearing of a tried and tested 'kit' as such...?

Chris

[300bhpton]

Could it be fitted at the back of the flexipipe, which would gain higher exhaust pressures, anymore info on this method would be much appreciated, thanks for your thread, mrpike

I can see any reason why you can't fit it aywhere along the exhaust. But typically there is more room under the rear bumper section and it also allows easier access.

The main company in the US supplying these kits is STS: http://www.ststurbo.com/

They tend to focus on V8 powered cars but you could probably gain a lot of info fro them. All you really need is to downsize the turbo for something more suitable for a 1.7 litre engine.

There is also quite abit of info out there if you want to spend sometime Googling. I know there are guys in the States running remote/rear mount turbo's on Honda Civics and other smaller vehicles.

IMO - to keep the exhaust gas velocity up run either stock exhaust manifolds or shorty style ones. Big tubular manifolds won't help on this kind of setup and will likely cause more lag. To this end keeping the exhaust tube diameter between the engine and turbo smaller (or stock size) will aid in this along with running a hi flow cat.

If you have a bit of money (not loads but enough to buy the parts) and have the ability to fab up such a setup I personally feel it's probably the cheepest route to getting some form of FI.

Sure it may not be the ultimate in turbo setups, but it will work and cost a lot less than a traditional front mount setup.

I was seriously considering doing this to my Triumph TR7 V8, although in the end I decided to buy the Camaro instead. But I haven't totally ruled out doing something similar to that one day.

[mrpike]

fab post
any indea on a crude ball park figure?
Wonder if this would cost the same as going the Turbo route, though I suppose anythign done well is going to cost

At the moment I've not looked at costs, as I'm trying to get my head around witch route to go down, as above, or an engine transplant. On that note my son has upgraded his GSI Nova to a 2.0 ltr 16v turbo converted by Courtenay Sport Ltd kicking out 267 bhp and 0-60mph 5 secs, water injected, superchipped plus lots more, has been in Max Power. May be I should borrow the engine when he's not looking, but I'm loyal blue oval mrpike

[300bhpton]

If you just want a faster motor then nitrous has to be the easiest and likely cheapest bet.

The trouble with adding more power is not actually getting the power but getting the rest of it to handle it.

You son's car sounds interesting, I too know someone with a turbo Nova 2.0 but I'm not certain if the cost was worth the performance. The Nova platform is not the best front driver out there.

The Puma certainly looks the part and handles well so if you're prepared to spend the £££ why not make it perform like a true performance car.

But although this view might not be appreciated by all here. If you really want performance it might be a better approach to start with a more suitable platform. I not taking anything away from the Puma of course. But there are alternatives.

I know, I spent 5 years and over £10k rebuilding and modding this:



3.5 litre Rover V8 swap, big cam, Offy manifold, luminitions, kenlowe electric fan, HD gearbox & axle, suspension, bodywork, paintwork, bucket seats harnesses, alloys, big brake conversion, semi slick tyres and a load more.

All up it makes about 200rwhp, looks great, is fun to drive, sounds fantastic, iconic British sports car, been clocked at over 140mph and has proven to be faster in a drag race than a Mazda RX8 or BMW z4 3.0i

However it still doesn't perform how I wanted it to.

The solution - I bought this:



It cost less to buy than the build on the TR7. Yet it outperforms the TR in every way, shape and form.

It's a lot more comfortable (leather, air con, electric everything), seats 4, has a usable boot, removable glass T-tops, cheaper to run, newer, more economical (clocked at over 26mpg recently), much more powerful (350bhp/370lb ft), a heck of a lot faster and handles as well and probably grips better.

I'm not saying American pony cars are for all. But it's cheap, easily attainable performance. It'll keep with a new (08) Porsche 911 convertable cross country on B-Roads. Match a new Aston Martin V8 90-150mph and wipe the floor with a Subaru Impreza or Mitsi FTO.


I guess its about having a suitable platform/chassis to work with and most importantly the engine.

If you want something smaller then there are loads of alternatives like Cobra replicas, Caterham-like cars, Austin Healey look a likes to name but a few.


I know this is a divergence from the Puma. But seriously if you are after out right usable performance on a budget. Considering all options before outlaying relatively large sums of cash on mods is well worth it.

This post has been edited by 300bhpton: 23 May 2008 - 11:13 AM

[mrpike]

Cheers mate I know what you are saying, yes I am trying to mod/upgrade or whatever people want to call it on a budget. I was a mechanic in the old days, in the era of the TR6 and TR7 and all the fords. But todays cars are more difficult to work on due to all the electronic's in them, I am also handy with fabrication and mig welding as most of the work, bar the electronic's I could do myself. I would like to thank you for all the input you have given me, all I can say is watch this space. PS to make life simpler I been thinking about an S1 turbo unit, yes it is an older option, but easy to fault fined problems, as my knock about car is a 19year old 1.6 S CVH on 159,000 miles and still pulls 115mph. Cheer's now, mrpike

This post has been edited by happy-kat: 23 May 2008 - 12:31 PM
Reason for edit: please use Add Reply or Fast Reply, there is no need to requote the post above

[happy-kat]

Tiggr has a CVH

the old engines are very heavy though, wont that upset the balance? and what about the chassis strength in an accident with a steel lump?

[300bhpton]

the old engines are very heavy though, wont that upset the balance? and what about the chassis strength in an accident with a steel lump?

Do you have wieghts of the engines?

Also I doubt very much a solid aluminium engine offers any form of crash protection over an iron one. Plus you could buy a diesel festa with a cast iron block in it.

[happy-kat]

sorry I meant in a front on the steel engine being heavier might come through the cabin more than the lighter original

[300bhpton]

sorry I meant in a front on the steel engine being heavier might come through the cabin more than the lighter original

I don't know, I kinda suspect if you hit anything that hard in the first place its probably immaterial.

[clayton]

i was at FITP the other week and spent a lot of time at the JAM-SPORT stand, they have done wonders with super chargers including fitting one to a fiesta st. whilst speaking to them i mentioned is this possible to fit to a 1.7 zetec, they said there was no reason why not but because it will be a first there is no of the shelf product so a lot of RnD will be required. after asking further i got qouted 5k all in with a months duration but looking over 200bhp power wise running on gotech managment. I believe the first st setup cost a similar amount but onces they had templates its now selling for 3k fitted!!!! not a bad price power to money wise...... so the question is, whos going to be the guinea pig?