[Hadrieno]

Hi All !

I bought an FRP Gearbox from a friend (Philalix) and an LSD was mount in it. No problem with that (LSD is really.... awesome !). BUT :

My 3rd gear end at 155 km/h (96 mph) instead of 140 km/h (86 mph).


Is it normal ?


Thank you for answers

[Big Boy Al]

My standard puma box would hit 95mph in 3rd my new frp box will only hit 83mph in 3rd. The frp box has shorter gears in every gear I've found this out now and I like my standard box better.

The frp box accelerates quicker but hits the limiter too quickly even 2nd gear in the frp box is 5 mph shorter.

If your hitting 95 in your new frp box then sadly it's a standard box with LSD fitted in it.

This post has been edited by Big Boy Al: 02 August 2010 - 09:23 PM

[mikecat]

you wanna sell your frp lsd box the al?

[Big Boy Al]

Hehe no mate I've got one on the frp and the track puma it's just going to take getting used to as I used to like using 3rd gear alot as I could get 95 out of it but now it's about 83 you find you have to try and change gear mid corner which I don't like doing.

Might get an LSD fitted in my standard box one day but that means buying an LSD.

This post has been edited by Big Boy Al: 02 August 2010 - 09:41 PM

[mikecat]

ive fitted a LSD to a standard puma box by mistake, thought it was a frp box, doh!!

so if you was in an frp with standard box what mph should you hit in second and third

[volcomstone411]

just rebuilding my box, it's your preference, but shorter ratio's will accelerate faster, theoretically, but will top out quicker. But personally i find that 5th is redundant in frp unless over 100, so i'm dropping them all down so there is about 20 mph between each gear.

[Hadrieno]

Big Boy Al, on 02 August 2010 - 09:21 PM, said:

My standard puma box would hit 95mph in 3rd my new frp box will only hit 83mph in 3rd. The frp box has shorter gears in every gear I've found this out now and I like my standard box better.

The frp box accelerates quicker but hits the limiter too quickly even 2nd gear in the frp box is 5 mph shorter.

If your hitting 95 in your new frp box then sadly it's a standard box with LSD fitted in it.

There is a thing i really don't understand..... :
With a standard gearbox (1L7), i always hit 3rd gear at 140km/h (83 or 86 mph) (it's my 2nd puma).

For other gear level :
1rst i hit 60 km/h (37mph) (same as standard gearbox)
2nd i hit 100 km/h (62 mph) (same as standard gearbox)
3nd i hit 155 km/h (96 mph) (different as standard gearbox)

For 4th and 5th gear, i didn't test yet, but :
- in 4th gear, at 3000 rpm, i'm at 90 km/h (56mph)
- in 5th gearbox, at 3000 rpm, i'm at 110km/h (68 mph) instead of 90 km/h (56 mph) with a standard box.

I'm pretty sure that's a FRP gear box i'v got, it's exactly the same than this picture :



Two differences with the standard gearbox :
- bigger (and black) oilpan
- underside oilpan is different (the standard gearbox is lower)

I can't explain more those differences, i don't have the words.... (french guy....)

[Hadrieno]

After some search, the best possibility seams to be :
- it's an FRP gearbox
- with 3rd 4th and 5th gear of 1L4 gearbox
- with 3.82 final drive ratio.

I used this topic and this website :

http://passionford.c...ive-ratios.html

http://www.car-video...&B1=Recalculate

It gives that :

3000 rpm : 54.4 mph (4th) 68.0 mph (5th)
6750 rpm (top speed) : 36.9 mph (1st) 60.2 mph (2nd) 90.8 mph (3rd)

4500 rpm : 60.5 mph (3rd)


Top speed of the 3rd gear is not exactly the same (it will need a 1.21 3rd gear ratio for 96mph....) ; but its seems to be that because when i pass the 3rd gear (and hit top speed in 2nd) , it starts approximatively at 4500 rpm.

If someone have an idea.....

Otherwise, is it a good or a bad thing for performance ? Now, 5th gear will be only usable for 'economic drive'. For me it looks to be perfect because 5th gear is not really use in Fast Road or track drive ; 3rd gear now start at 4500, which mean that i've got more torque. I'm right ?

This post has been edited by Hadrieno: 02 August 2010 - 11:02 PM

[FlashBastd]

The ratios in the 1.7 and FRP 'boxes are the same, but the 1.7 has a 3.82 final drive, while the FRP has a 4.25.

Your 'box sounds standard.

In my old 1.7, it pulled approx 20-21mph/1,000rpm in 5th gear. The FRP 'box will make less than this, probably around 16-17mph/1,000rpm.

[Hadrieno]

Someone have gear ratios and final drive of FRP ?

[FlashBastd]

Final drive is 4.25, gear ratios are as per 1.7.

[Hadrieno]

So :



As you can see, it's impossible that i have a 'normal' standard box ; the last owner must had change gear ratio in it.

I think i've got those ratios :



I've got the explain for the difference between the 3rd gear top speed i've got with my Puma (96mph) and with those calcs (90.8) : difference between my speedometer and real speed.

I hit at 155 km/h (96 mph), i know that we've got 10 km/h more compare to real speed, so : 155 km/h - 10 km/h = 145 km/h (90.10 mph). I think i'm not so far of the truth.

[FlashBastd]

Seems odd, are you sure it isn't just 5th gear that is changed? Changing 5th is very easy, changing 3 & 4 means a full strip down.

[Hadrieno]

FlashBastd, on 03 August 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Seems odd, are you sure it isn't just 5th gear that is changed? Changing 5th is very easy, changing 3 & 4 means a full strip down.

Yeah, i'm absolutely sure of those numbers :
- 3rd gear hit at 96 mph (91 real)
- in 4th, at 3000 rpm, i'm at 56 mph (90 km/h)
- in 5th, at 3000 rpm, i'm at 68 mph (110 mk/h)


It will not be a good thing for me, i've just mount this gearbox last week..... That seem i need to unmount gearbox, mount another, send 2 gearbox to my friend (the wrong with the LSD, and another to mount it), and remount the gearbox when it will be ready...... Hopefull, i've got now 3 Gearbox box at home, but it's time and money loss....

[FlashBastd]

Well if you want a new FRP gearbox, let me know.

[Hadrieno]

LOL

I will wait to see what its done.... iw will Comeback to you if i need it (send me the price by MP)


Thanx

[Big Boy Al]

FlashBastd, on 03 August 2010 - 06:36 AM, said:

The ratios in the 1.7 and FRP 'boxes are the same, but the 1.7 has a 3.82 final drive, while the FRP has a 4.25.

Your 'box sounds standard.

In my old 1.7, it pulled approx 20-21mph/1,000rpm in 5th gear. The FRP 'box will make less than this, probably around 16-17mph/1,000rpm.

flash im 99% sure this is wrong unless you have it guaranteed from somewhere or i had a different box in my standard puma before i had an frp lsd box put in.

theses were mine and ollies findings before and after. every gear is shorter, definitely 2nd and 3rd, much shorter but quicker.

here they are in comparison with frp map obviously on both revving to 7200, measured with my tom tom.

1st, standard and frp box are about 35 mph.

2nd - standard - 65 mph.
- frp - 60 mph.

3rd - standard - 93 mph.
- frp 82 mph.

4th - standard - 116 mph.
- frp - 109 mph.

also 5th is a longer gear as james malin overtook me on the autobahn at 137 mph in my frp and i was almost at the limiter, grr lol.

only reason why i say this is a downside is because on a track like brands i was using the top of 3rd gear alot between 80-90 which would mean i would have to be in 4th in low revs on the frp box so its not as flexible.

This post has been edited by Big Boy Al: 03 August 2010 - 04:58 PM

[FlashBastd]

According to Microcat IIRC it is just the final drive, but of course this has the effect of making all of the gears closer together.

[Hadrieno]

Big Boy Al, on 03 August 2010 - 04:57 PM, said:

flash im 99% sure this is wrong unless you have it guaranteed from somewhere or i had a different box in my standard puma before i had an frp lsd box put in.

1st, standard and frp box are about 35 mph.

2nd - standard - 65 mph.
- frp - 60 mph.

3rd - standard - 93 mph.
- frp 82 mph.

4th - standard - 116 mph.
- frp - 109 mph.

For me, you had an other box in your standard Puma :

With standard gearbox (1L7) :
1st : 60 km/h (37mph)
2nd : 100 km/h (a bit less... maybe 98) 62 mph
3rd : 140 km/h (a bit less.... maybe 138) 87 mph
4th : 175 km/h 109 mph
5th : +225 km/h (and i hit the limiter) 139mph

And i'm absolutely sure of that (that's my 3rd gearbox from 1L7 + the last 'FRP' gearbox, that isn't one...)

Another question :

i've just phone another friend (Ben RS Attitude), he had an FRP (the only one in France !). He said to me than the limiter on the 1st and 2nd gear was to 6750, and on the other gear (he doesn't hit 4th and 5th gear, only the 3rd), the rev limit is at 7000 rpm ? Is it normal ?

i was sure than FRP have its rev limiter to 7250 rpm ?


Thanks to all of you for your answers !

[FlashBastd]

Not sure about first gear, but in second the FRP should rev to 7250.