[mikegmotorsport]

Hi guys, I am partially thinking on converting a 1400 puma into a rally car and would like to know about putting FRP parts on it.

Including:
Rear beam
Drive shafts/hubs/steering etc
bodywork

Firstly, I know this has been done a few times so I sure people will have the know how here, How much should I expect to pay for 2nd hand parts here?

Secondly, will it still be able to run the 1400 box wiht FRP shafts?

Just want to know more about the conversion before committing.

Cheers guys.

[happy-kat]

personally I would go the F2 body parts route as this is what the rally Puma uses and get the mechanical parts to go with it too
the FRP parts are rare, getting even lower in stock and cost a bomb (second hand stock.... not much really and take forever to get enough parts and still way expensive anyway)

[PussCat]

^^ what K8 said...

it's easier to get the 'rally' / F2 parts than FRP ones. I'd suggest maybe you have a chat with someone like Birkbeck -they rally pumas - or Magnum Motorsport, who provide a lot of the parts....

[happy-kat]

plus the F2 parts are still in production where as buying FRP parts is dwindling the scarce remaining stock so not a good prospect for a rally project

[mikegmotorsport]

Cheers guys, so by F2 is that like a model of Puma or do you mean the actually rally car like super 1600?

[big g]

have a look here
click me

[happy-kat]

and so much chepaer than FRP parts, get the whole lot for the price of one bumper

[melinamotor]

and so much chepaer than FRP parts, get the whole lot for the price of one bumper

Apart from the matierial they are made of couldnt these rally parts fit on the FRP? Surely it would save some weight wouldnt it

[Turby]

I presume this is will be your first stage rally car ?

In that case, something like http://www.eurorallye.co.uk/product_info.p...roducts_id=1117 will be more than suitable. Its ready built, and the sum of parts on it massively exceeds the purchase price and, more importantly, its been built with all the right bits...

See you current car and put the proceeds towards this one (or another one).

The alternative is to convert your own car, but I'd suggest doing a quick tot up of the prices to fit the mandatory parts (rollcage, seats, harnesses, guards, extinguisher etc) , and then another list with the parts you'd like (body panels, seam welding, engine, suspension, gearbox, tyres, wheels, brakes, tripmeter etc) The prices should convince you...

[mikegmotorsport]

No this is not my frist rally car project. As it happens it was the car in that advert which got me thinking about converting one myself the other day.

The parts I was after are just the ones to convert, but having found the new prices for FRP shafts, hubs, bottom arms etc it will amount to a lot before rally prep work is undertaken. Thanks anyway.

[Turby]

IIRC The VK14 1400 puma rally car ran around 150 BHP and that was with the standard inlet manifold, with throttle bodies and further internal engine work, no reason why 180 BHP isn't achievable.

Do you require a FIA homologated car or will it be run on MSA club rallies in the up to 1400 class ? Loose or Sealed surface ?

Bang for buck, that car represents good value for money - assuming it reasonable straight and the floor pans / sills are in reasonable condition.

Good luck

[mikegmotorsport]

A homologated car would be preferable but not essential. Loose and sealed surfaces.

The problem lies that I dont have the funds to buy a car outright at the moment but could piece one together over time as I have the experience and space. About 150 bhp would be ok to start with. And yes, the car in that ad is the ideal car for me right now, just no dollar!!! Damn shame actually.

[Big Boy Al]

Apart from the matierial they are made of couldnt these rally parts fit on the FRP? Surely it would save some weight wouldnt it

the f2 kit is about inch and a half wider than the frp i know this as i bought a bumper off ebay apparently for the frp but it was wider and found out it was the f2 bumper

This post has been edited by Big Boy Al: 11 April 2008 - 02:58 PM

[melinamotor]

the f2 kit is about inch and a half wider than the frp i know this as i bought a bumper off ebay apparently for the frp but it was wider and found out it was the f2 bumper

So in theory a decent bodyshop could put the whole kit on a FRP? The only problem area would be the rear arches I imagine.

This would be a definate option for me if I ever crash the car

This post has been edited by melinamotor: 11 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

[Turby]

You will find a modern homolgated car is going to cost more to build and maintain than a non-homolgated clubman's car. BTW Is the Pug 205 still homolgated ? - you can pick a basic one up quite cheap...


With rallying there are a lot of up front costs to start with, you will find that specific puma rally parts are still quite expensive because the cars are still homolgated and there are not many around when compared to the likes of 205's, Nova's, Escorts etc.

Sounds like you will need suspension, brakes, cage, seats, harnesses, tank guard, sump guard, fuel and brake lines inside, bulkhead fire proofing, cut off switch, extinguisher, BARS license, overalls, tyres, spare set of wheels just to get the MSA logbook. Ideally you want LSD, much lower final drive, engine tuning and exhaust system.

If you intend going on the loose the car will require seam welding and lots of underbody guards assuming you want it to last at least one event.

Whats your total budget to compete on your first event using your car as a donor... £5K ?

[mikegmotorsport]

I havent got a donor car to start with, it was just an inquiry into how much it would cost to put FRP kit into a 1400 to widen the track. I have rallied many times before and buit cars so I am aware of what goes into it (I didn't mean to sound patronising, sorry). No budget as I said I dont have the spare cash to do as of yet.

The 205 is no longer homolgated, although some claim to have a 'group N' 205, which is rubbish as homologation ran out a while ago!!

[m_kitty]

id say grp N is a spec rather than being in homologation, bit outdated now and i would say challenge spec would be a better indicator of having the right bits on now

ford did launch a 1400 puma in a championship when the car was launched, but as i recall the competition parts were mainly parts bin not specialised. might be worth trying to find the spec though. it may even have been homologated, try the fia website.

i would think KA guards would fit as would the suspension, though you may need to change spring rates.

i posted some thoughts on the other building a rally car thread, what i would say is the body kit could go on later, especially as the Puma is a good looking and unusual car to begin with.

[mikegmotorsport]

Yes very true. I belive the 1400 championship cars were group A5, so yes they were homologated.

[Alan m]

personally I would go the F2 body parts route as this is what the rally Puma uses and get the mechanical parts to go with it too
the FRP parts are rare, getting even lower in stock and cost a bomb (second hand stock.... not much really and take forever to get enough parts and still way expensive anyway)

Sorry but when the boy try's to buy Puma kit parts then he'll know the meaning of expensive, FRP parts are peanuts in comparison. Try £8K for engine parts, £15K transmission (box&diff no shafts etc), £7.5K suspension etc these were approximate new prices (+ VAT) for the 1.4VK back in 2000 from Boreham. These cars cost over £50K new but can be bought for a lot less now, parts are very expensive.

Mike if your still interested in building a puma drop us a pm and I'll give you what info I have. Have run both clubby group A and VK 1.4 puma's.

[happy-kat]

cool, I know I know nothing about rallying, just comparing on the web prices for FRP panels to F2 panels then it looks like the F2 is cheaper. (anyway there is limited if not run out on some bits re FRP parts so would be a shame to fit them when it is highly likely they will get crumpled...)