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24V V6 Cosworth Puma Project Rate Topic: ***** 5 Votes

#41 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:20 PM

View Posthappy-kat, on 29 April 2010 - 07:39 PM, said:

What a bargain with the Puma. Shame you did not land a good but actually shot engine one, then again you can sell that engine to someone with a shot one :)

Thank you for sharing your progress, interesting to read.


Well I did sort of lol !!

I bought it dirt cheep, £350, cos the guy had been told the engine was shot, but it turned out the clutch had demolished itself and the gearbox bellhousing which was what was causing all the noise lol.

Engine and surplus bits are in the for sale section ;)

Cheers Dave
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#42 User is offline   volcomstone411 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:09 AM

if i was going to make my own cage then, i'd get t45 :)
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#43 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:15 AM

View Postvolcomstone411, on 30 April 2010 - 08:09 AM, said:

if i was going to make my own cage then, i'd get t45 :)


Isn't that hellish expensive ??

Do you know how much it is compared to the CDS, (like double, treble the price) etc. I have thought about it, but just not sure yet !!

Cheers Dave
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#44 User is offline   warrenpenalver 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:15 PM

View PostDave2302, on 29 April 2010 - 07:21 PM, said:

Have been having a measure up and so far the only problem I can foresee is the new transmission tunnel around the bell housing is gonna be tight around the heater area inside the car, but I'm determined to keep the Pumas heater even if I have to mod it a bit.

Youll need a smaller heater. Mines got same issue and has smaller heater. Not sure where from though. Shouldnt be hard once you know some measurements to go hunting. After all its just a boxed in small radiator with a fan and ducting!!

You might be better off long term with a simple kit car style fan with electric heater. Smaller, weighs less, no HCV problems and simpler cooling system. Would need some custom ducting but im sure youll be fine with that.

View Postvolcomstone411, on 30 April 2010 - 08:09 AM, said:

if i was going to make my own cage then, i'd get t45 :)

Same lol especially if your doing the bending etc yourself then the T45 raw cost probably means you still get the cage for not much more than the CDS kit from custom cages.

Has anyone got the plans for the cage?? would make custom remanufacture easy.
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#45 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:06 PM

Warren,

Yeah, heaters looking to be a pain, but will worry about that once I've cut the tunnel hole in the bulkhead and know what sort of size I need,
A quick glance says it may be possible to modify the Puma unit, depending how far the tunnel extends upwards. I will strip the Puma unit for a better look see once the final sizes are known ;)

Re the T45, will price it up, but tbh I wasn't planning on spending anywhere near 700 sheets on the rollcage lol.



Right onto todays efforts:-

A few hours this morning produced this mess.....

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I know I could have done it quicker, but as the loom etc is gonna be out of the car for a few months I have carefully labelled all plugs and refitted all screws in the holes they came out of as I was going along.
Also, not a broken clip in sight, and I was mentally measuring things and working out what to mod, what to refit and where lol.

Only slight puzzle is this plug.....

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It's clipped on the back of the dash behind where the passenger air bag would be, but its not part of the air bag loom, it was not plugged into anything!!

Does anyone know what it is for ????

Coffee and smoke time :)

Onwards and hopefully upwards lol
Spent the afternoon removing and labelling the entire Loom including separating the Vehicle Systems Loom from the Engine / ABS Loom at the underbonnet fuse box.
I was pleased how easy it was to separate these 2 Looms, and how modification friendly it all looks. When I come to build the custom loom for the V6, it will be easy to just add the required extra wires, and move some existing wires and re - orientate them at the ECU plug if neccesary. Also existing ECU loom length means it will be easy to re - locate the ECU to a more user friendly "Plug and Play" location behind the N/S of the dash, (I have a plan)!!
This will come in handy for stage 2 of the project when the engine comes back out for some serious mods and then Megasquirt or Emerald Management is fitted. Seeeee I'm thinking, planning, plannin' and thinkin' lololol.

Next out with ECU, Airbag / Seatbelt Pretensioner Control Unit, Pedal Box, Heater / Aircon Unit, A/C drier, Horn, Brake Servo and Linkage, ABS Unit, Metal Brake Pipes and Rear Wheelarch Liners.

Doesn't sound a lot but the front bumper and headlights had to come off to remove the loom from across the front panel, and the back bumper had to come off to remove the plug for rear fog lamps and index plate lights. I'm sure Renault or Citroen had a hand in this particular bit of design PMSL !!
I have refitted the bumpers and headlights hand tight for now, as having them on will be useful for sizing up where all the bits are gonna go when I drop the engine in the hole next week.

Feckin' 'ell, looks like the bailiffs have been in :) ......

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Well thats about it for today, workin' tommorrow morning, but will push the Puma outside in the afternoon and get the Cossie Scorpio in for stripping.
Looks like I might be using the Scorpio Rear Beam and Suspension / Brakes cos the track is wider than a 4x4 Sierra and will fit the Widearch Bodykit dimensions better.

Cheers for looking, keep the feedback coming, good or bad lol,

Dave
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#46 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:17 PM

What will you do about the strength of the existing seams given they are rivits (I think?) and not seam welded?
and if you are doing something about the seam strength at what stage does that happen?
searching is fruitful | I'm a sponge not a mechanic | The Wiki is cool, please do check there if stuck with a Puma problem whilst waiting for a reply | For the Puma fan this read 'The Inside Story Book' is very nice to own link coming soon

#47 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:42 PM

View Posthappy-kat, on 30 April 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

What will you do about the strength of the existing seams given they are rivits (I think?) and not seam welded?
and if you are doing something about the seam strength at what stage does that happen?


Hi HK,

not sure I understand what you mean.....

All joints on the Puma Shell Structure are spot welded from the factory there are no rivets in any of the monocoque structure.

At this stage, I am not sure exactly how much of the Puma Floorpan / Chassis Rails I will be keeping and how much Sierra Floorpan / Chassis I will be using, but everything I put in will be seam welded and then whatever bits of standard spot welded Puma Chassis are left will be cleaned up and seam welded, to increase strength as its bound to get airborne when I rally it.

The trick with stiffening shells for rough surface driving is not to make them too stiff, for example when welding along chassis seams only do 1" weld run then 1" gap. If you just "fully seam weld" them all the way along they end up too stiff and stress fractures can occur. The shell needs to flex just a little.

It looks like I will be using the Sierra floorpan from the front bulkhead backwards as far as the Puma rear seat, but I really dont know yet, thats a fair way off yet.

Cheers Dave
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#48 User is offline   warrenpenalver 

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:23 PM

View PostDave2302, on 30 April 2010 - 08:06 PM, said:

Only slight puzzle is this plug.....

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It's clipped on the back of the dash behind where the passenger air bag would be, but its not part of the air bag loom, it was not plugged into anything!!

Does anyone know what it is for ????


Looks like the heated windscreen/amplifier plug. A subloom for either option plugs in there.
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#49 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:38 AM

View Postwarrenpenalver, on 30 April 2010 - 11:23 PM, said:

Looks like the heated windscreen/amplifier plug. A subloom for either option plugs in there.


Aha right, I was thinking of heated screen option, as it turned out mine didn't have one.

Anyone got a heated screen sub loom and switch then, would like to add this, then when I crack the screen I can just get a HFS fitted.

Cheers Dave
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#50 User is offline   warrenpenalver 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 03:15 PM

Ive got a collection of subloom pieces somewhere! Probably got one of those somewhere.
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#51 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 06:35 PM

Only remembering what I read when someone else said to a member that to rally their FRP they would need to make the seams stronger and weld them I thought was mentioned :)
Nothing worse then a dodgy memory and no mechanical knowledge ;)
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#52 User is offline   warrenpenalver 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 07:01 PM

seam welding is common in motorsport like Dave says, but is over the top for most road cars hence spot welding being the cheap, effective and reasonably strong enough technique. Its also cheap to automate hence modern production lines.

My front strut tops are still on original spot welding and despite all the abuse my car has had and with the torque etc there is no sign of movement in them or signs of fatigue, so perfectly adequate for road use.
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#53 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:25 PM

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the comments.

If you do find the sub loom and switch I would be happy to buy 'em off you Warren just let me know.



Right onto todays carnage.....

It's a sad sad day, the poor old Scorpio Estate is being broken. I've had this car since it was a year old, paid 18 grand for it :( :(

Unfortunately, it broke is gear linkage last winter (2008 / 2009) and I didn't have my workshop built, coulnd't move it and the weather was foul, so it just stood for about 6 months. It really deteriorated, the air up here is a bit salty. By the time I got round to doing it the chassis at the rear had rotted alarmingly, the discs had gone irrepairably rusty and the back bumper had been smashed in when I accidentally reversed a trailer into it.

I have wanted to build another "special" and now the workshop is done the decision was made to re incarnate some of the running gear into a Puma.

So she drove into the garage this afternoon, but sadly won't be driving out.....Boo Hoo lol

Anyway by the time I got back from work and shifted the cars about it was around 4 o'clock, so this afternoons efforts basically created this un - holy mess.....

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Wiring under bonnet disconnected, all coolant hoses disconnected, A/C pipes disconnected, bonnet off and heated washer jets retained for the Puma, exhaust manifold heat shielding off, airbox and pipes out, starter off, exhaust stripped down and off (and only 1 stud out of 5 sheared off), post cat lambdas removed for safe keeping, underfloor heatshields off, propshaft off, Transmission and oil cooler pipes off.

That'll do for today..... time to knock off.

Now whilst stripping this lot out I've had the tape measure out and been eyeing up where various bits are gonna go, and I have to say I'm getting very worried.....

It's all looking far too easy, almost like Uncle Henry designed the Puma with this project in mind lol.....

Who knows, perhaps Ford were gonna do a 4x4 one and then budgets and or political correctness caused it to be knocked on the head !!

Trouble is because it's looking so easy, I know summat's just gonna come along further down the line and bite my ass lol.

So check in tommorrow night for the next action packed installment, tommorrow should see the engine out and all the underbonnet stripped, leaving Monday to get the entire loom out of the car with all modules etc etc.

Chow f'r Now,

Dave
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#54 User is offline   volcomstone411 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:55 PM

if ya wanna pop down anytime and see my cage and take measurments your welcome too. But t45 is defo worth the extra money. lengths arn't much more expensive

the other benefit to seam welding is that panels downt bend as easy if you give them a little love tap :)
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#55 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:20 PM

View Postvolcomstone411, on 01 May 2010 - 08:55 PM, said:

if ya wanna pop down anytime and see my cage and take measurments your welcome too. But t45 is defo worth the extra money. lengths arn't much more expensive

the other benefit to seam welding is that panels downt bend as easy if you give them a little love tap :)



Hi V411,

Thanks for the offer, may well pop down someday when I'm doon sooth lol.

If the tube isn't much more expensive then I will definitely use it, thanks for the advice.

Yeah I'm intending to beef up the stock spotwelds once I have done all the modification welding and fabbing !!

Cheers Dave
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#56 User is offline   volcomstone411 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 09:27 PM

cool. i been making my rear arches today, and putting new inner arches to stop the dirt flying up there, so it all needs ot be sealed. If you get FRP rear qtrs you can pull them out a little bit. Then i used some thin metal to fill the arches higher up than frp arches so there is more damper travel, then i used some really good fibreglass sheet, like kevlar, but firbreglass not fibreglass matting, actual sheet. Its so much better, seals it all in and keeps the dust away. Recommend it. I think Upol supply it.
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#57 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:49 AM

V411,

You're a step ahead of me there lol, but that sounds exactly what I'm gonna be doing !! I'm going to cut the Puma rear tubs at their highest point by the original seam and then weld in horizontally outward bound new fabricated tubs extending to the new wheelarches. Then as you say seal them properly so no sh1t can get through :)

I've also had some interesting discoverys with the tape measure !!

Puma front strut top nuts are identical width to Scorpio ones, and depth and height wise the front bulkheads are the same and same shape in design, this means, subject to behind dash space the Scorpio Heater / Climate Control unit may well fit, so I will be putting that and all associated wiring in the "stores" lol. If you'll pardon the pun Climate Control on the Puma would be well cool :)

The Scorpio is wider across the front hubs than Sierra so I may end up with a mixture of 4X4 ally front subframe and Scorpio lower arms, with Sierra Hubs / Carriers, Driveshafts, Anti Rollbar and Bilstein Sierra front Struts and Springs, giving me the widest track possible but keeping the front end geometry all in the correct ballpark.

Also the Scorpio rear arm Shock fixing looks like stock Puma rear Strut fitting so coil over Puma type adjustable rears should fit without too much aggro.

Like I said earlier, its all looking too easy, somethings definitely gonna crop up soon LMFAO !!

Cheers for now,

Off out to workshop for todays exciting instalment lol!!

Regards

Dave
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#58 User is offline   Puma2010 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:04 AM

View PostDave2302, on 01 May 2010 - 08:25 PM, said:



That'll do for today..... time to knock off.

Now whilst stripping this lot out I've had the tape measure out and been eyeing up where various bits are gonna go, and I have to say I'm getting very worried.....

It's all looking far too easy, almost like Uncle Henry designed the Puma with this project in mind lol.....


Dave


I know the feeling. Sometimes when things work out easier than you thought you wait expectantly for something big to go wrong! lol. You never know though, your project may go very smoothly. Look forward to seeing more pics.

C.
Since my first car I have always looked to own cars that would be great to drive, but on a reasonable budget. These are the cars that I have owned over the years, from my first to present:
1. Mk1 Fiesta 1300S | 2. Mk1 Fiesta XR2 | 3. Puma 1.7 in Melina Blue | 4. Mk2 Toyota MR2 GT | 5. Mk3 Cortina 1600L | 6. Honda CRX ESi | 7. Ford Sportka | 8. Honda Civic VTi -S | 9. Toyota Yaris 1.8 SR | 10. Honda Civic 1.8 SE i-vTEC | 11. Puma 1.7 in Moondust Silver

#59 User is offline   Tyeboi 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 02:56 PM

looking great!

just a little off subject question though.

that sound proofing behind the dash... did it weigh much ?
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#60 User is offline   Dave2302 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:50 PM

View PostTyeboi, on 02 May 2010 - 02:56 PM, said:

that sound proofing behind the dash... did it weigh much ?


Not really good with guessing weights lol, but I would guess about 1-2 Kilos

This post has been edited by Dave2302: 02 May 2010 - 04:51 PM

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