Pumapeople: Wizard Of Nos Works His Magic On #453.. Nitrous Install - Pumapeople

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Wizard Of Nos Works His Magic On #453.. Nitrous Install

#21 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE (Robert @ Apr 10 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Im talking about after the Thrash day when his puma engine died completely,


yes, that was my recollection too... even tho there were doubters to this....

I saw Martin working on the engine the next day blink.gif

I think this only confirmed my rather ignorant view of Nitrous at the time.....

I started looking in WON systems and having a nosy on their forum about 6 months ago....

The quality (and honesty) of the Advice and knowledge that Trev gives on his forum is second to none..... i think that, apart from anything to do with power increases was the single biggest factor in my confidence for this setup.... their dedication to getting it running spot on is fantastic!..

smile.gif

Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
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#22 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (olisyddall @ Apr 10 2008, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How much is a few quid? From the sounds of things might be worth considering! Give us a rough idea atleast!


i waited my time a bit and found a kit on EBAY that had everything I wanted (almost) pulsoids, 11lb bottle & mounting bracket and Heater.... i saved approx £4-500 buying most of the kit second hand... bare in mind if you go down this route you need to get the pulsoids checked and serviced before installing which adds around £60 i think it was..

then it was just a case of saving up for the controller and the fitting!....

for a definate price you'll have to contact Highpower systems (WON).... but fitting has a basic fee of around £350 ish ....fitting the max is a little more intricate and time consuming especially if your having the transducers fitted too....and so that could well rise another £50-100

The kit that i have, if you bought it all brand new and fitted... your looking at around £1,500-1,600 i think.... but again, you'd have to contact highpower for somthing a little more accurate..... I did a good deal wink.gif i'm sure other people could do the same.... smile.gif

they do a simpler progressive controller that spans the delivery over measured time which is significantly cheaper.....called the 'Minimax' smile.gif

hope that helps a little...

tongue.gif tongue.gif

Chris

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 10 April 2008 - 11:34 PM

Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
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#23 User is offline   scottrennie14 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:52 AM

does anyone else feel that film put u of nos just because it is a bad film


and for a drag race them cars took along time to get to 140, lol it annoys me so much, and even more that they are making another one with the orginal cast ooooooooooooooooooo noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

#24 User is offline   Robert 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 01:09 PM

QUOTE (eldoodarino @ Apr 11 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it never liked it or it wasn't fitted properly...? laugh.gif

was it a progressive system..?

as kate has pointed out, things have moved on.... The 'Max' is quite a bit of kit and doesn't waste Nitrous... wink.gif

Brunters sounds fun... bit basic... but still fun smile.gif

Chris


It was a progressive system (minimax) and it was fitted by WON AFAIK biggrin.gif

But he did run 100hp jet so that was its downfall in the end...as he used it all the time,
morph had a very heavy right foot...



This post has been edited by Robert: 11 April 2008 - 01:58 PM

Now Driving everyone mad.

Present..
Honda 900 Hornet....120bhp...Two wheeled madness and lovin it
Mk2 MX5 1.8is.....150bhp. LSD= Fun.....
Fiesta ST....... 174bhp...A Warm hatch as standard but chuck a couple of £££ at it and its spot on...
Past...
Clio Cup 172...176bhp...Its Fast it handles but falls to bits....
Mk1 MX5 1.8is........130bhp...A Fun car superb handling rubbish in the snow....
2 FRP's............150bhp...A Great car great handling but needed more power....should of kept one...
http://www.pumapeople.com/stuff/1221511209...35_18_45035.jpg

#25 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:30 PM

Just a thought but aren't NOS jets quoted in the diameter of the hole rather than BHP ? ie "50 jet" is 0.5 mm, "75 jet" is .75mm ... the BHP increase would then be dependent on the engine size, gas pressure and duty cycle of the pulseoids ?

Be interesting to follow how this pans out over time - I'm glad you got a decent progressive controller, got the kit fitted and controller setup professionally smile.gif

If you can't get wheelspin I think you need to make delivery slightly less restrictive! ph34r.gif

This post has been edited by Turby: 11 April 2008 - 04:33 PM

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#26 User is offline   Noswizard 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:34 PM

Great posts Chris now get back to my forum and tell your fellow WON users what you've been up to. wink.gif

Many thanks for the positive comments, as they make the effort all worthwhile.

With regard to nitrous ASSOCIATED engine failure, please note that I used the term ASSOCIATED because it usually is by association and NOT the cause that nitrous is ACTUALLY linked to engine failure.

If you increase the power of ANY engine by ANY MEANS by a big enough amount, it will fail sooner or later BUT it is not the fault of the power enhancing product, because it was ONLY DOING ITS JOB!!!!!
It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner to make a judgement on how much extra power his engine etc. can handle and if he wants to make more than that, then its his responsibility to improve the engine to handle that amount.

It's would be like blaming the car for going too fast when you got a speeding ticket, if you were to blame WON for an engine failure due to the system making too much power.

The problem is that 99% of nitrous kits on the market are NOT "designed" they are just a bunch of cheap parts that are thrown together in the HOPE that they work and luckily for those companies, nitrous is so effective that even total garbage will produce a result that will impress most people, but unfortunately that is usually quickly followed by an inevitable kit failure and/or an engine failure.
Now this is a totally different scenario to an engine failure due to excess power but unfortunately most people either can't tell the difference or can't be bothered to understand the differences.

This confusion in conjunction with the fact that most people seem to want to group ALL nitrous kits together under the same label, misleads potential customers in to believing all this misinformation.

What I can't understand is that EVERYONE would accept that there are well designed cars and there are badly designed cars. They also accept that a Sony computer is a better quality product than an Acer computer, yet the same people can't appreciate that the same MUST APPLY to nitrous systems.

What makes that even stranger, is that it's FAR MORE LIKELY for a selection of a specific product to be of different qualities, than it is for them all to be the same quality and a quick glance at a Which magazine will confirm that FACT!!!

Regards

Trev

This post has been edited by Noswizard: 11 April 2008 - 04:38 PM


#27 User is offline   Noswizard 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 04:43 PM



NOS is a company name and jets made by NOS are sized as you say, however just like all WON parts things are done differently here and our jets are power related to size.
All power rating of jets are theoretical, which are dependent on jet bore, length, entry/exit angles and pressure, so they should only be used as a guide.

Regards


Trev



#28 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Turby @ Apr 11 2008, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a thought but aren't NOS jets quoted in the diameter of the hole rather than BHP ? ie "50 jet" is 0.5 mm, "75 jet" is .75mm ... the BHP increase would then be dependent on the engine size, gas pressure and duty cycle of the pulseoids ?


aparently with the bottle heater system as i have, the 'approx' 50 jet should be a fairly obtainable figure.... let's not try measure everything in BHP tho... wink.gif

QUOTE (Turby @ Apr 11 2008, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you can't get wheelspin I think you need to make delivery slightly less restrictive! ph34r.gif


it could be set to do so...but i'm scared laugh.gif

at the moment i'm getting my head round the menu's on the controller... and trying out different power curve settings on each gear.... which is ohmy.gif ohmy.gif good fun... unfortunatly, practicing numerous settings and power runs means the Helix is working quite hard huh.gif ...oh and.... EMPTY.. laugh.gif

Altho, i am refilled already by a small tuning company only a few miles away... ja_cool.gif

i can see this adrenaline rush is going get very addictive... biggrin.gif biggrin.gif don't think the girlfriend is too impressed tho ranting2.gif

bleh.gif

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 11 April 2008 - 05:37 PM

Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
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#29 User is offline   Dogsbody 

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Noswizard @ Apr 11 2008, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
NOS is a company name

Trev


I think I still have one of their Tee shirts from the states biggrin.gif

"Lets Cheat" on the front and NOS Nitrous Oxide Systems on the back.
Blue with orange writing rolleyes.gif

Oh I am tempted....
But California holiday to pay for wink.gif
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#30 User is offline   Noswizard 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 05:18 PM

I wouldn't advise anyone to use NOS gear, so unless you'd be happy with crude, outdated products, keep well away from them.

Chris mentioned the smoothness of the power delivery from his WON system but you'll never hear anyone using ANY other make of kit use that terminology. Companies like NOS, NX, etc. are STRANGELY proud of how BRUTAL their kits deliver power, so they obviously don't understand that a brutal power transition equals broken engine parts.

Power is dangerous and less use without control, especially in a street enviroment and WON systems offer the ULTIMATE in power control with the Max Extreme, as Chris has testified to.

Regards

Trev

This post has been edited by Noswizard: 12 April 2008 - 05:20 PM


#31 User is offline   PumaVoodoo 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 07:19 PM

It could be said you've got an agenda in advising people to use your own kit though?

That's some seriously nice looking work nevertheless, it's a pity you're not one of the day in day out mechanics at Pumaspeed or Pumabuild.

Also, are there any controllers that are less intrusive that the one the eldood has? I'm tempted by a nitrous setup myself, but prefer a more stealthy interior setup. Don't know if its possible without losing some of the functionality? Or if it's possible at all? Any thoughts?
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#32 User is offline   Noswizard 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 08:19 PM

QUOTE (PumaVoodoo @ Apr 12 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It could be said you've got an agenda in advising people to use your own kit though?
Yes it could and often is said BUT IT'S NOT TRUE!!!!
Anyone who knows me well enough, knows that I'm too honest for my own good.
When I first started getting in to nitrous, it would have been much easier and FAR MORE profitable to do what everyone else does, just buy and sell whatever is already available. However my principles wouldn't allow me to do that, because I could NOT honestly sell customers a product, that I knew would fail and seriously damage their engine. I fully appreciated the potential of nitrous oxide but it required vastly superior hardware (and electronic ware) to release that potential in a user friendly fashion.
The only alternative I had, was to carry out years of R&D work to design, perfect and manufacture the superior products that I could not only sell with a clear conscience but also be EXTREMELY PROUD OF!!!!


That's some seriously nice looking work nevertheless, it's a pity you're not one of the day in day out mechanics at Pumaspeed or Pumabuild.
My engine knowledge is extensive (as a consequence of pushing the bounderies with nitrous) and available to anyone who asks the right questions.

Also, are there any controllers that are less intrusive that the one the eldood has? I'm tempted by a nitrous setup myself, but prefer a more stealthy interior setup. Don't know if its possible without losing some of the functionality? Or if it's possible at all? Any thoughts?
We have customers who hide their control units inside the glove box and only view them when the need to make an adjustment. We also have a small simple unit called a Minimax which is far less obtrusive. wink.gif


#33 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 08:41 PM

QUOTE (PumaVoodoo @ Apr 12 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It could be said you've got an agenda in advising people to use your own kit though?


Trev is VERY sensitive to this issue already and i believe, does try to be as informative and as factual as possible....

it's a very difficult balence when other companies are quite happy retailing poor quality kits.... there are some VERY obvious flaws in the other kits available and others which are not so obvious until used i guess.... other generic solenoids need servicing regulaly and can stick/fail without warning... also simple things like a decent bottle bracket to mount the bottle.. look on EBAY... other brackets seem to look like a large jubillee clip ohmy.gif it's just unreal how crap they are laugh.gif

QUOTE (PumaVoodoo @ Apr 12 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, are there any controllers that are less intrusive that the one the eldood has? I'm tempted by a nitrous setup myself, but prefer a more stealthy interior setup. Don't know if its possible without losing some of the functionality? Or if it's possible at all? Any thoughts?


trev may be best to answer this one... but there is a 'minimax' which offers a timed progressive delivery.... which is significantly cheaper than the max....

what is it you don't like about the max?... the size?... it is quite big, but not too big i would say... smile.gif

one of the reasons i went for the max is that it keeps the interior tidy.... no need for extra gauges, bottle heater switch etc... as it's inbuilt in the controller..... the trottle sensor is also inbuilt..... keeps everything compact and tidy.

Chris




damm you beat me to it trev... laugh.gif

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 12 April 2008 - 08:58 PM

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#34 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:18 PM

personally I would have mounted it out of sight and in the glove box, or even if possible as a slide in out tray where the stereo spare din is.
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#35 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:25 PM

i had considered both of those options....

the glovebox option isn't really an option unless you want to stick with the same settings ...... it's just too far and awkward to reach to operate properly on the puma....

the radio slot would be absolutly perfect if you didn't mind ditching the radio.... as for sliding it in and out underneath....mm...you need to see the wiring on this thing.... laugh.gif Not a chance!...

tongue.gif

it doesn't have to be a permanant fix... mine is on connectors so i can remove it.... and the securing screws can be easily unscrewed... smile.gif

it does need to be steadily secured in order to operate tho...

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 12 April 2008 - 09:30 PM

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#36 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:32 PM

I was thinking of a slide in/out with a pivot, so that it flipped vertical once out. Would be really neat if it could do that so the stereo was not compromised.
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#37 User is offline   eldoodarino 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:35 PM

i agree....i may see if that is a possibility over the summer.... as it sounds quite fiddly to achieve....

would be much easier to use at that height too... tongue.gif tongue.gif when i'm in 5th, the gearknob does block most of the view of the screen....

biggrin.gif
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#38 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 12 April 2008 - 09:39 PM

you even have a spare slot and the unit looks like it is narrow enough too
do I get commission wink.gif
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#39 User is offline   PumaVoodoo 

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE (eldoodarino @ Apr 12 2008, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trev is VERY sensitive to this issue already and i believe, does try to be as informative and as factual as possible....

it's a very difficult balence when other companies are quite happy retailing poor quality kits.... there are some VERY obvious flaws in the other kits available and others which are not so obvious until used i guess.... other generic solenoids need servicing regulaly and can stick/fail without warning... also simple things like a decent bottle bracket to mount the bottle.. look on EBAY... other brackets seem to look like a large jubillee clip ohmy.gif it's just unreal how crap they are laugh.gif


I can certainly appreciate that he's very much in a classic Catch-22 situation. I build guitar amps for not insubstantial amounts of cash, and have similar points to make about other manufacturers work and products. It's difficult to point ot that other people's things have flaws when you stand to gain from them buying what you recommend.


QUOTE
trev may be best to answer this one... but there is a 'minimax' which offers a timed progressive delivery.... which is significantly cheaper than the max....

what is it you don't like about the max?... the size?... it is quite big, but not too big i would say... smile.gif

one of the reasons i went for the max is that it keeps the interior tidy.... no need for extra gauges, bottle heater switch etc... as it's inbuilt in the controller..... the trottle sensor is also inbuilt..... keeps everything compact and tidy.


It looks like it's a bit obvious to an opportunist peering in through a window. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll have to come and have a look in person some time cool.gif
S*** LRX, usually belting between Dover and Maidstone by any means except the M20

Weitec GT Coilovers, Powerflex bushes, Milltek full FRP exhaust, 280mm front brakes
Low slung, taught, powerful and stops on a dime.

#40 User is offline   Noswizard 

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 01:33 PM

I don't see how anyone can fully explain the benefits of one product without pointing out the limitations of the others. If people were fully informed about ALL apsects of ALL the products in question, then that may be possible (although if that were the case, then it shouldn't be needed, as they should already be aware of the benefits) but the reason for explaining why one product is better than another, is because people are NOT aware of ALL the factors involved.
What makes it worse with nitrous, is that ALL nitrous companies (except mine) are located in the USA, where it seems its OK for EVERY company to CLAIM to be the best and the most advanced, without any proof to support such LIES and as they are outside UK laws, I can't set trading standards on them to make them tell the truth.

With regard to the Max etc. I've never had anyone report any of our electronic products being taken from inside a car, I think most thieves wouldn't have a clue what they were and nick the radio instead.

Regards

Trev

This post has been edited by Noswizard: 13 April 2008 - 01:44 PM


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