[Gebbly]

Just phoned my local RapidFit to inquire about getting some new tyres and asked about the T1-Rs. He told me his system which only has up to date info but info on practically all available tyres shows the only toyo proxes in 195/50/15 are the PX4s. Does this sound right to people?

[YOG]

According to the Toyo website, both are available, see below:

Note that the T1-R is listed as an 82V (as per Puma spec), whereas the 4 is listed as an 86V (stiffer sidewall?).

Proxes 4
http://www.toyo.co.uk/productdetail.php?id...p;product_id=62

Proxes T1-R
http://www.toyo.co.uk/productdetail.php?id...mp;product_id=2

[Gebbly]

Thanks YOG, I hadnt spotted the difference between the 2. Did a bit of a dig on wikipedia and found this really useful breakdown.

Apparently the 86 or 82 refers to the "Load Index" "stipulating the maximum load (mass, or weight) each tire can carry". This would suggest the 86V tyre would be a bit stiffer ergo longer wearing but the 82V would be a little softer and wear a little more quickly yet provide a bit more grip? Does that sound feasible?

[YOG]

You link is not working.
I don't think it would necessarily give longer wearing. If I understand it correctly, the wall will take a higher weight/stress loading on the 86V, so there would be less flexing of the wall under cornering than the 82V.

happy-kat can probably give you a better idea, as I think she has higher rated tyres/walls on her FRP than standard.

I believe the 86V would give a harsher ride than the 82V.

This post has been edited by YOG: 30 September 2008 - 02:22 PM

[happy-kat]

I think that sounds about right there (to my uneducated knowledge)

You also need to ensure tyres meet the rating for the Puma if not this may affect insurance otherwise.

I have extre load tryes, fabulously stiff sidewals, maitain profile under lateral forces. Gives a brilliant precise feel, obviously let go is more extreme than a more compliant tyre. Just my personal preference, and yes they are noisey.

[Gebbly]

Thanks for the replies. I'll check the manual tonight for which are the suggested tyres (86 or 82). The link seems to work for me but just in case the actual link is "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code"

[YOG]

Owner's Guide only shows the size 195/50 VR 15. You need to look at the tyre wall for the 82V.

[Dom36]

Do you think an insurance company would investigate a change in sidewall strength?

[happy-kat]

what if the tyre was lots lower than it should have been and the tyre was the cause of the accident, you just don't want to go there.

[YOG]

According to Gebbly's (sorry, don't know your name!) link, it says:

"In many countries, the law requires that tires must be specified, and fitted, to exceed the maximum speed of the vehicle they are mounted on, with regards to their speed rating code (except for "Temporary Use" spare tires). In Germany, tires that are not fit for a car's or motorcycle's particular maximum speed are illegal to mount, unless a warning sticker stating the allowed maximum speed is placed within clear sight of the driver inside the vehicle. Some manufacturers will install a speed governor if a vehicle is ordered with tires rated below the vehicle's maximum speed.
If a tire is replaced with a lower speed rating than originally specified by the vehicle manufacturer, then this may render the vehicle insurance invalid."

So, the speed rating is still the same, it's just the loading that's different.

1047 lbs/475 Kg (82V) and 1168 lbs/530 Kg (86V)

I'll phone my Insurance company tomorrow, ask the question and post the answer.

This post has been edited by YOG: 30 September 2008 - 07:14 PM

[happy-kat]

my tyres are 87Y (had choice of tyre in two ratings, I ordered the extra load to exceed requirement)

[Gebbly]

I stumbled across a lot of negative reviews of the T1-Rs so ended up going with the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s instead and they dont have the choice of 2 different load value tyres so it was taken out of my hands. Pretty sure the spec of the GS-D3s is greater than that required by the Puma anyway so I should be ok...I think. (Tyre speed rating V). Went for GS-D3s as according to Goodyears website they dont do the F1 Asymmetric in 15"

I'd still be interested in what the insurance company had to say though.

Oh and my name is Paul for the record, although most friends call me Gebbly in real life (long story).

[Dogsbody]

Your tyres are a different size Kate.

They should be 215-40-17 I believe.
Paul was after 195-50-15.

The sidewalls on our tyres would be a lot better at handling lateral movement as they are like "rubber bands"

"H" rating is up to 130 MPH, No standard Puma will ever get to that. The rev limiter cuts in about 127
So no point in going for the more expensive "V" rating.
I did read a road test, that gave the FRP a 137 top speed, so it requires "V".
It will also fail is MOT is the rating is not high enough

[billy]

The Toyo Proxes T1-R also got a lot of good reviews from Puma owners! In my opinion, it's a really good match with the car and is not as noisy or prone to buckling the alloys over potholes as a stiffer sidewall tyre. Gebbly/Paul - have you searched on this site for reviews on the Toyo? It was the positive reviews which made me consider the Toyo and I haven't been disappointed (and I'm a 'keen' driver ). Worth trying out...

[shuriken]

Side wall ratings are primarily there for different weight cars, the Puma isn't the only car to run these tyres. Tyres are the first line in your suspension so the stiffer and/or lower the side wall the less give there will be. Look at Porches etc and they run on rubber bands! Limiting the flex in side walls gives greater cornering speed(relative), pot holes wont be as forgiving though! Tyre size and speed rating are the important things, side wall rating wont effect your insurance or MOT, just the numbness in your bum! A softer side wall may not be a disadvantage if your getting the car to hustle on a bumpy road compared to stiffer ones. It's all a compromise.

[Gebbly]

I did look around the forum and ask opinions and some liked the T1-Rs and others liked the GS-D3s in fairly similar numbers. Thats why I had GS-D3s as my backup choice.

[YOG]

Your tyres are a different size Kate.

They should be 215-40-17 I believe.
Paul was after 195-50-15.

The sidewalls on our tyres would be a lot better at handling lateral movement as they are like "rubber bands"

"H" rating is up to 130 MPH, No standard Puma will ever get to that. The rev limiter cuts in about 127
So no point in going for the more expensive "V" rating.
I did read a road test, that gave the FRP a 137 top speed, so it requires "V".
It will also fail is MOT is the rating is not high enough

If Ford rated the Puma tyres on top speed only, then the "H" would be OK for the standard Puma and the "V" for the FRP. However, Ford put 195/50 VR 15 on the standard and 215/40 ZR 17 on the FRP to "over-rate" for the more "enthusiastic" type of driving. I doubt that you would (or could!) drive a Rover 75 in the same way.

"The term 'speed rating' is a little misleading, as most will never attain the maximum speed listed for the tyre. It should be considered a performance rating, as it represents the standard to which the tyre is built and able to withstand the forces generated by the vehicle and the road."

It would be a very foolish person who fitted a lower rated tyre to their car than recommended by the manufacturer. Although meeting the "speed rating", it would be interesting what an insurance company would say, if found to be under the manufacturer's specification when involved in a crash.

This post has been edited by YOG: 01 October 2008 - 02:21 PM

[Dogsbody]

If Ford rated the Puma tyres on top speed only, then the "H" would be OK for the standard Puma and the "V" for the FRP. However, Ford put 195/50 VR 15 on the standard and 215/40 ZR 17 on the FRP to "over-rate" for the more "enthusiastic" type of driving. I doubt that you would (or could!) drive a Rover 75 in the same way.

"The term 'speed rating' is a little misleading, as most will never attain the maximum speed listed for the tyre. It should be considered a performance rating, as it represents the standard to which the tyre is built and able to withstand the forces generated by the vehicle and the road."

It would be a very foolish person who fitted a lower rated tyre to their car than recommended by the manufacturer. Although meeting the "speed rating", it would be interesting what an insurance company would say, if found to be under the manufacturer's specification when involved in a crash.

The garage refused to fit remoulds on my Dad's TR7 years ago
Crap car anyway, my Escort van could blow it away

The FRP's hit the rev limiter 7250 with 140 just showing on the clock, So I have been led to believe.
It wasn't me on the A303, Honest officer

This post has been edited by Dogsbody: 01 October 2008 - 02:35 PM

[YOG]

OK, I phoned my insurance company (NUD) as promised and they confirmed thay have no problem with tyres being fitted with a higher speed rating or higher load rating than the manufacturer's standard fitted tyre. However, they would have a problem with a lower speed/load rating.

For example, I could fit a "W" speed rating instead of "V" and/or 86 load rating (new Toyo Proxes 4) instead of 82 on the standard Puma.
I wonder if the stiffer wall would help reduce the uneven wear being experienced on the very lowered Puma's?

The Proxes 4 which fits the FRP (215/40 ZR 17) has a load rating of 87, how does that compare with the standard FRP tyre load?

[happy-kat]

the original Pirelli were 83W
ZR is required for the FRP, there is a chart I found online that explains the ratings and allows you to compare, so I knew my new ones exceeded the requirement (on load and speed)

Graham it is about lateral forces, not straight line speed as such, a tyre that has a high speed rating can also take the lateral forces applied with high speed, braking and cornering

in this post it is irrelevant what size tyre, as it was the rating we were discussing