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Maximum Revs

#1 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:31 PM

I am currently building my new race engine and trying to sort out the gear ratio before everything is put back together. My question is how high will the 1600 zetec-s rev ? I did read in an article ages ago that with major work they will rev to 14,000 but to me that sounds daft. my engine spec is as follows

Standard crank but keyed
Steel flywheel
uprated bearings
forged rods and pistons
custom steel valves with uprated springs and titanium top caps
ARP bolts through out
modified cam belt tensioner

The last engine revved to 8200 and this seems to be the norm but why? is there a limiting factor ?

Thanks
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#2 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

Sounds interesting hopefully someone perhaps Turby will know the answer to this
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#3 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

Hopefully, you would expect it to be 8000,8500,9000 some body must have put some thought or know something to say 8200. I guess one factor is how often you want to rebuild it or maybe it could be stoke versus bore ?
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#4 User is offline   Dogsbody 

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:00 AM

Ryan's FRP is revving to 9500 I think.
As his dad built the S1600 engines for Ford and he races a Zetecs Puma, he would be my starting point.
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#5 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:24 PM

You could also ask Jon at Shawspeed about reliability of std crank vs rpm. As you say its a case of RPM vs reliability vs rebuild interval / cost.
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#6 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:57 PM

What revs are you doing in your puma turby ? I have found at great website that helps calculate loads on the piston/ rods and cranks but what load will a crank take. ? I guess the only way to find out would be by trail and error and that's expensive. Interesting to hear that one is revving to 95000rpm could use that rev limit as an overtake button :-)
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#7 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:59 PM

Do you know Ryan's username dogsbody ?
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#8 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:59 PM

This is Ryan's project thread
http://www.pumapeopl...howtopic=107116
searching is fruitful | I'm a sponge not a mechanic | please do try that if stuck with a Puma problem whilst waiting for a reply | For the Puma fan this read 'The Inside Story Book' is very nice to own sometimes still seen for sale

#9 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:28 PM

View PostFledge, on 21 July 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

What revs are you doing in your puma turby ? I have found at great website that helps calculate loads on the piston/ rods and cranks but what load will a crank take. ? I guess the only way to find out would be by trail and error and that's expensive. Interesting to hear that one is revving to 95000rpm could use that rev limit as an overtake button :-)


soft cut 8100, hard cut 8300 - max power is just under 8500. That way it should last! touch wood...
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing (Alexander Pope - 1709)
Stop being spoon fed and GOOGLE it!

#10 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:33 AM

Cheers Toby
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#11 User is offline   Ryan93 

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:34 PM

Mine peaks at 9000 but we did have it peaking at 9500 with very short inlet runners, the limiting factor is the ammount the cylinder head can flow. The standard crank was tested till 10200 when my dad developed the s1600 engines with ford and i can confirm that mine which was knife edged lightened then balanced has been fine till 9800rpm.
My head/cam specs are the biggest you will go withhout turning the engine in to a 2000rpm power band drag engine so my engine in my opinion is the best spec/use of revs/reliability.
Its also always for sale for the right price or we can build you one fresh for the desired use.

#12 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:42 PM

Is the 1.7 not a bored out 1.4 but the 1.6 is a totally different block/engine?
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#13 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:33 PM

The head as been flowed and the valve sizes increased so we will have to see when it's on the dyno. I was just wanting reassurance that the engine will take 9000rpm
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#14 User is offline   Ryan93 

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

The engine should be fine aslong as the rods are not cheap ones, the crank would be better knife edged but if you have not it should be ok, you need a serious set of cams and head flow to make good power at that rpm, have you seen my head? We had to machine arpund 2mm either side to get my cams to turn.What sort of inlet and exhaust manifold are you running and what power are you looking for?

#15 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:11 PM

Hi Ryan. The head has had a lot of work done and we had to machine material off so the cams could turn. I am running jenveys and a custom manifold and I am hoping for 210bhp+
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#16 User is offline   Ryan93 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:44 PM

Hi, then as long as the bottom end is of good quality you should be fine, 210bhp should be possible, are the jenveys 45mm? Are you still running the vct and what ecu are you using?
What do you use the car for out of interest?

#17 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:37 PM

the jenveys are 45mm and its omex management and its 1600 so no vct. The car is non road legal all out race car.
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#18 User is offline   Ryan93 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:45 PM

Oh right, hopefully it will still be drivable for you, mine with the little extra cc and the vct pulls really well.Mine is on 45's also so there will be no restriction for you there
What gearbox do you use, mine doesn't really like changing fast at 9000+revs
I race a 180bhp puma in trackday trophy there a brilliant car, were struggling a little with setup and out of the corners against the 2.0 clios so its having a 2.0 zetec for next year :)

#19 User is offline   Fledge 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Not to worried about drivableilty as it will only be used on track. At the moment it's a FRP box with a LSD but I will have to save some pennies and get a quaiffe gear set to get the ratios better.
There are only two sports racing and bull fighting, the rest are just games

#20 User is offline   Ryan93 

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:18 PM

To be honest we wasnt worried about drivability but unfortunately with a five speed h pattern box you can never always have the right gear for the corner hence why were now going for torque out the corners, also plated diffs are a big thing in our series but again its budget isnt it.
I just found that 5.1:1 fd but if i wasnt running 17's i wouldnt of needed such a short ratio
To be honest i spent hours looking at the quaife ratios and all they do is use a long first gear then give you the option of final drives, the other gears are nearly identical so i thought for the money just get a short final drive and save a grand
What series do you race in?

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