Therefore any complaints about my response should be directed at him (lol)
I decided to start a new thread rather than add to the original thread, as it had gone well off track by the end and I thought it would be better this way.
The main thrust of this thread is to consider ALL the associated factors of enhancing engine performance using normally aspirated tuning methods, compared to using WON nitrous injection. I must emphasise that the following comparison ONLY applies to WON systems and NO OTHER, because WON systems have many UNIQUE, beneficial features. Since Chris is responsible for enticing me to make this post, I'd like to emphasise the fact that my PRIMARY reason for making this post is NOT to advertise my products, it is to share my HUGE wealth of knowledge and experience, with anyone who cares to take it on board.
Just ensure there is no doubt about my ability to deal with both sides of this issue fairly, let me state for the record that before I started working with nitrous, I was a very successful conventional tuner. Furthermore, it is ESSENTIAL to have a comprehensive understanding of ALL aspects of engine design/performance, to achieve the outstanding results I and my customers have produced when using nitrous.
Before I get in to the main thrust of the subject, I'd like to deal with a couple of associated points that I picked up on whilst reading the original thread:
1) I can confirm that the MOST important aspect of head tuning is a 3 angle valve job.
2) It is also the cheapest and most cost effective modification you can do to head.
3) Polishing ports is detrimental to performance.
4) The shape of the port is far more important than the finish of the port wall
5) To be fair to SOME head specialists, the appropriate modifications to make a "reasonable" improvement to the flow through a head, can often be very subtle and only an expert could see the difference.
6) The cheapest way to improve the flow of a head, is to take the head to a local machine shop and have them carry out a 3 angle valve job. Buy a roll of 1" wide coarse emery cloth, then get a 6" length of 1/2" bar and cut a 1" long slot in one end. Cut a length of tape off the roll and insert one end in the slot. Coil the tape round the bar till it fits snuggly in the intake port. Insert the bar in a drill and with the drill running, work the bar down the port to remove any irregularities.
7) To get a result better than you will achieve using the above techniques, it would take major head work by an expert that would be likely to cost £1,000+ to be carried out correctly.
8) To achieve worthwhile benefits from NA mods, it's often essential to carry out a number of mods together.
9) Whatever power you can gain using other techniques (NA, turbo or blower), nitrous can increase it even more. It would even be possible to increase the power of an F1 engine using nitrous, if it was allowed.
10) It is often said that NA power is constantly available but that is not strictly true, because it takes time using NA power to reach the higher power levels desired, whereas with nitrous the performance enhancement is INSTANT. Furthermore, what use is power that is always available, when it is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a car at constant WOT, even on open roads, never mind on our crowded roads as they are today?
Now to the core of the thread. The following negative factors associated with NA tuning are often overlooked:
1) Conventional tuning involves raising the upper rpm working limit of the engine. This increases the stress on ALL engine components (making them more likely to fail) and increases the wear rate. Component changes that are suitable for achieving higher rpm power, themselves increase component wear rate and stress on some of the other engine components, as well as causing losses in low to mid range power/torque. Such changes also adversely affect idle, low speed drivability and the overall economy of the car.
2) You usually start off with a well designed and well assembled engine (courtesy of the manufacturer) but now you're going to entrust that engine to someone who is unlikely to be as well equipped, yet they are claiming to do a better job in carrying out more complex work. In the main that's unlikely (although there are obviously some companies that can achieve that), so there is an associated risk just by disturbing the original engine assembly.I've seen more engine failures due to bad NA work than I've seen by WON product failure, an easy task as we've NEVER had a WON product failure.
3) Carrying out NA modifications is a complex job and the more complex the work the greater the risk of problems that can lead to down time. We also carry out engine re-build work (although we try to avoid NA tuning work now) and I can assure you that engine work can often over run by weeks due to unexpected issues, leading to exceptionally long off road time.
4) If a modified engine component failed it would need replacement and quite often would have lead to other engine components failing.
5) When the modified engine parts wear out (which they will do at a much quicker rate), they will need replacing.
The following are positive factors associated with WON nitrous systems that are often overlooked;
1) Nitrous can enhance vehicle performance without exceeding the original rpm limit, it is even possible to do so using a lower rpm limit.
2) Nitrous enhances torque and power across the entire rpm range, so there is no need to sacrifice low end torque for high end power.
3) It is possible to achieve performance enhancement using nitrous, without increasing the risk of component failure and without increasing wear.
4) Fitting a nitrous system will not adversely affect the normal running of the engine, the drivability of the car or the fuel economy.
5) Your well assembled and proven reliable engine does not need to be pulled apart to fit a nitrous system. This removes the risk that the work will take longer than expected and the possibility that the work will be done incorrectly. WON nitrous systems are very simple to fit DIY and if fitted professionally, the work can be carried out within a predictable time scale.
6) WON components NEVER fail as a consequence of poor workmanship or component quality issues and even if they did, they are covered by a lifetime guarantee. Even if a component failed due to misuse or abuse, they can be repaired for a modest cost.
7) WON components will NEVER wear out, so you'll never need to spend another penny once you have the nitrous system of your choice.
Further factors;
1) If you buy NA tuning parts for your engine and your car is involved in an accident and then declared a write off, you can't recover your parts but if you were quick enough, you could have removed the nitrous system to be used on your next car.
2) If you buy NA tuning parts and then decide to replace your car, even if you buy the same model, it's a pain in the ass to remove them, fit standard ones, remove the standard parts and refit the tuned parts to the new engine, whereas it's a doddle to transplant the nitrous system.
3) If you buy NA tuning parts and then decide to buy a completely different car, your tuning parts would be useless to you, even if you went to the trouble of removing them, however a WON nitrous system can be transplanted from a MOPED to a TRUCK if required and at worst would only need relatively minor upgrades to do so.
4) If you spend say £1,000 to increase the power of your engine by say 25 hp using NA components, it is likely to cost you £1-2,000+ to achieve a further 25 hp, because the costs of conventional tuning increase exponentially as the power is ramped up. However, once you have bought a nitrous system, you are not limited in the same way from the outset and for relatively modest additional expenditure, it's possible to increase the power by HUGE amounts.
For example our basic nitrous system costs under £500 and this is ALL you need to achieve more power than most people can handle, but we would limit you to an initial power increase of just 25 hp. For just a further £20 that power can be increased to 50 hp and for a further £20 that can be raised to 75 hp. Now as I stated, most people would not be able to handle such an increase in the way this system would deliver the power, so for as little as a further £229 you could add a progressive control unit that would allow you to use even the 75 hp increase in a manageable way.
At this point you may need to improve the following components to continue your drive for more power;
i) Fuel system - Estimate £200
ii) Clutch - Estimate £400
iii) Ignition system - Estimate £300
iv) Pistons - Estimate £500-£1000
v) Head gaskets - Estimate £120
With all the above mods it is quite likely that you could achieve a power figure in excess of 300 hp and yet the price is still less than the £2,500 quoted for a mere 195 hp using NA components. Plus many of these additional mods required to generate and handle nitrous power (like the fuel system and clutch), would also be needed for the same power increases using NA methods anyway.
Now that's plenty to chew on for now but I'm sure I've missed off a number of associated factors, so I'll come back with those as and when they come to me. In the meantime if you'd like to read more on the subject, there are chapters in my book that are dedicated to comparing nitrous enhancement with NA, turbo and blower enhancements, in greater detail. I invite any forum member to dispute any of my statements but be warned, I can support all my claims with detailed technical evidence, should I need to do so and have only scratched the surface in this post, to try and keep it shorter than it would otherwise have been.
Regards, Trevor Langfield.
This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 08 July 2011 - 08:55 PM
Reason for edit: To make it easier to read.