Pumapeople: Immobiliser Problem - Pumapeople

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Immobiliser Problem

#1 User is offline   karlpryor 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 15-May 10

Posted 15 May 2010 - 03:26 PM

Hi, I only have the red master key left for my ford puma, it is currently in the garage as they think that because i was using the red master key it confused the immobiliser and kicked it into action so my car will now not start! they have told me that we can either buy a new unit with keys etc etc (expensive) or we might be able to bypass the immobiliser if we can get hold of a wiring diagram that shows how to do it, i have searched and searched the internet all to no avail, PLEASE can anyone help????

#2 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:27 PM

I think you would need to pick up a new ECU with the key or keys. They do come up on here occasionally but you need to know which ECU you have.
Tape / Buff etc.

Is the garage a "Ford garage"? they should be able to sort out the cars security with the box of tricks they plug into the ECU.

There are normally at least two circuits bypassed with the Imobaliser.
Fuel pump and starting and or ignition.
I have had to bypass it on a Rover 100 I'm driving currently as it was giving me grief, fuel pump cutting out.
I would bypass as a very last resort, if you can.

Have a look in the wiki guide, I'm sure there is a section about alarm / imobaliser problems and testing.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#3 User is offline   karlpryor 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 15-May 10

Posted 15 May 2010 - 05:04 PM

Hiya Dogsbody, thanks for the reply! No the garage is not a Ford garage but he is very good nonetheless, he has absolutley everyone he could think of take a look including ford mechanics and no one could find the problem, one guy did go to him with really in depth diagnostics equipment though which is when we discovered it was in actual fact the imobilser at fault and the part about we think its because we were using the red master key is just a guess!

Had a look at the Wiki guide, no section on immobilser or anything like that! We have come to the last resort of bypassing it now but it's so fustrating not being able to find any guides what so ever on how to do it If you here of any similar problems your advice would be greatly recieved.

Thanks alot

Oh and buy the way, i noticed your location is Chippenham, we are Calne! so if you do know any genius' in the area let me know.



#4 User is offline   pumapilot 

  • View gallery
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 8384
  • Joined: 14-February 03
  • Location:Basingstoke.

Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:02 PM

View Postkarlpryor, on 15 May 2010 - 05:04 PM, said:

We are Calne! so if you do know any genius' in the area let me know.


Only garage near to you that can/will help is Tremona in Southampton, linked in my signature block, they found/replaced a PP members ECU when the one on his FRP blew up one night, also linked is the Puma garage list.
Posted Image
Signature block created by Colin Y (BOK) & here as my tribute to him
Print your own Pumapeople fliers by clicking here
PUMA GARAGE LIST LINK
Tremona Garage

#5 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 15 May 2010 - 07:08 PM

View Postkarlpryor, on 15 May 2010 - 05:04 PM, said:

Hiya Dogsbody, thanks for the reply! No the garage is not a Ford garage but he is very good nonetheless, he has absolutley everyone he could think of take a look including ford mechanics and no one could find the problem, one guy did go to him with really in depth diagnostics equipment though which is when we discovered it was in actual fact the imobilser at fault and the part about we think its because we were using the red master key is just a guess!

Had a look at the Wiki guide, no section on immobilser or anything like that! We have come to the last resort of bypassing it now but it's so fustrating not being able to find any guides what so ever on how to do it If you here of any similar problems your advice would be greatly recieved.

Thanks alot

Oh and buy the way, i noticed your location is Chippenham, we are Calne! so if you do know any genius' in the area let me know.

I'm actually in Beanacre and a electrical electronics engineer :)
I will look into bypassing it but it won't be till Monday as I'm working 12hr days over the weekend.

Graham
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#6 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 17 May 2010 - 06:15 AM

Right I have had a good read up on it and I don't think you can bypass it very easily, certainly not as easy as the Rover 100 was to do.
But I did find a very interesting article on a web site explaining faults with the system.

One bit that caught my eye was that you have to have TWO keys programmed to the car or the system won't work or accept if you just try and do the one key.
I presume its a bit of a safety think as provided you have one key you can still program more.

There is also a list of the related fault codes and their explanation.

I will also drop into my local Ford dealer who looks after my and another FRP for a quick chat on the way back from the "School run"

Have a read through this and give a copy to your garage.

Principles of Operation

The passive anti-theft system (PATS) uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a drive away theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity from the user.

With this PATS system:

No master key is required.
VIN data is stored within the powertrain control module (PCM).
Has fleet customer features.
Spare key learning and erasing is possible.
CAUTION: There are two different types of encoded PATS keys. One with a red tag on the key, the other with a blue tag. The PATS keys for this vehicle must have a red tag or damage may be caused to the control module when used.

Encoded Ignition Key

The PATS uses a specially encoded ignition key. Each encoded ignition key contains a permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder contains a unique electronic identification code from millions of combinations. Each encoded ignition key must be programmed into the vehicles PATS control function within the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) before it can be used to start the engine. There are special diagnostic repair procedures outlined in this manual that must be carried out if an encoded ignition key needs to be changed. The PATS keys have a red transponder within the head of the key. Only Ford approved ignition keys should be used as some aftermarket encoded ignition keys not purchased from a Ford approved source may fail to operate especially at high or low temperatures. A minimum of 2 encoded ignition keys must be programmed to a vehicle in order for the engine to start. A maximum of 8 ignition keys can be programmed to a vehicle. The PATS control function within the PCM will enter Anti-Scan Mode if a non programmed ignition key (with the correct mechanical cut) is used to start the engine.

NOTE: If a non programmed key has been used, any further key reading is inhibited for 20 seconds. During this 20 seconds, no ignition key will start the engine. To exit anti-scan mode turn the ignition key to the position II and wait 30 seconds, turn the ignition key to the position 0 and remove the key. Then turn the ignition key to the position II with the correct programmed key.

PATS Control Function

The PATS control function is contained in the PCM. This module carries out all of the PATS functions, such as receiving the identification code from the encoded ignition key and controlling engine and starter enable. The PATS control function initiates the key interrogation sequence when the vehicle ignition switch is turned to position II or position III.

Transceiver Module

The transceiver module communicates with the encoded ignition key. This module is located on the ignition key lock cylinder casting and contains an antenna connected to a small electronics module. During each vehicle start sequence, the transceiver module reads the encoded ignition key identification code and sends data to the PATS control function within the PCM. No configuration is required with the installation of a new PATS transceiver.

Anti-Theft Indicator

The PATS system uses a visual anti-theft indicator that is controlled by the PATS control function. This indicator will self-test for three seconds when the ignition switch is turned to position II or position III under normal operation. If there is a PATS problem, this indicator will either flash rapidly or glow steadily when the ignition switch is turned to position II or position III and then it will flash a fault code 10 times. Refer to the Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Index in this section or connect WDS and follow the on-screen instructions. The PATS system also flashes the anti-theft indicator every two seconds at ignition 0 to act as a visual deterrent.

Starter Relay

The starter relay is also used as an additional means of disabling the vehicle engine. The relay is disabled when PATS cannot read an encoded ignition key at ignition position II. However, the system will not store a DTC or flash the anti-theft indicator if a valid ignition key is read but a fault occurs in the starter relay circuit. REFER to Section 303-06 Starting System. The relay is enabled when PATS control function reads a valid encoded ignition key at ignition II. The PATS will be activated and will disable the vehicle from starting if there is a:

Damaged encoded ignition key
Unprogrammed key
Non-encoded key (key has no transponder or is not the correct transponder key)
Damaged wiring
Damaged transceiver
Damaged PCM
Shielded ignition key
Inspection and Verification

1. Verify the customer concern.

2. Visually inspect for obvious signs of mechanical or electrical damage.

Visual Inspection Chart

Mechanical Electrical
Ignition lock cylinder
PATS key
Use of a non-PATS key
More than one PATS key or metal object on key chain (key shielded by metal)
Using a non-encoded ignition key
Using a non-programmed encoded ignition key
Using the incorrect PATS key for the vehicle
Central Junction Box (CJB) fuse 12 (15A)
Battery Junction Box (BJB) fuse 9 (20A)
PCM
Ignition switch
Loose or corroded connection(s)
PATS transceiver
Starter relay


DTC Indicator Flash Code Description/Condition Possible Source Action
0000 - No DTCs, vehicle OK
B1681 11 Transceiver module signal is not connected or wiring damage. Vehicle does not start Transceiver wiring transceiver connector,
B2103 12 Transceiver antenna coil fault Vehicle does not start Transceiver Install a new transceiver.
B1600 13 Non-PATS key or damaged encoded ignition key, or no key code received. Vehicle does not start PATS encoded ignition key
B2431 13 Transponder programming failed. Vehicle does not start Ignition key
B1602 14 Partial key read of PATS key. Vehicle does not start PATS encoded ignition key.
B1601 15 Incorrect key code, Unprogrammed PATS key (keycode format OK). Vehicle does not start (20 second anti-scan invoked) PATS encoded ignition key
U1900 16 ISO communication link to the PCM. Vehicle does not start Circuit or PCM
B1213 21 Number of programmed PATS encoded keys below minimum. Vehicle does not start Incorrect number of keys programmed or PATS encoded ignition key
B2141 22 Non-volatile memory configuration failure. Vehicle does not start

MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#7 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 17 May 2010 - 08:39 AM

Just spoken to Nortree in Melksham.
The engineer there said that if you only have the red key, you need TWO more keys to be able to program the PATS system.
He suggested the cheapest route as going to the local scrap yard and getting a couple of keys with the red transponders in, out of Fiesta's etc and just programming to the transponder.
If you wanted to at a later date, just cut the metal bit off and glue the correctly cut metal bit got from Ford for £5.99 back on.

The computer that the Ford dealers have, can program up to 8 keys to a car and does not need a key to start with.
It asks if you want to void all the keys currently programmed and start again.
If your garage has the Ford ECU computer there shouldn't be any problem.
Pete can do it on a Saturday morning for cash he said ;)

They can do it by coming out, but would charge you for the call out.
Around £80 for an hour I suspect.

Failing that the keys and security data is all held by the cars ECU, so a new correct named ECU off Ebay with a key supplied.
But that sounds like a very last resort as yours should be programmable.
MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic