[PumaWillis]

I was in my mates CTR the other day when I had a bit of a ponder...

With Honda/Toyota/Mitsubishi engines, the variable timing can be adjusted to come in at lower or higher revs than would be standard. For example, on a CTR, standard VTEC comes in at apprx. 5200rpm but can be cranked down to come in at around 3500rpm at the lowest point... I was wondering if a similar thing could be done with the VCT system Ford uses and has anybody tried this before? I think the VCT is a cracking system and works very well, but with an extra 1000-1500 revs it could be an animal. And adjusting the kick of it would mean not having to move the rev limiter to far off the scale.

This post has been edited by PumaWillis: 10 March 2008 - 12:58 PM

[BOK]

VCT and VTEC are very different systems. Especially 'old style' VTEC systems prior to the iVTEC K20 engines. There is no kick with VCT (at least not what I call a kick, with any of my 3 Puma 1.7s and I do know how to rev them)

Prefer old style VTEC to VCT and iVTEC when you're "on one" anyday... It's like comparing red chillies and red peppers...

Damn I miss my proper VTEC kick

This post has been edited by BOK: 10 March 2008 - 07:49 PM

[volcomstone411]

if you fiddle with the spark timings you can get a real jolt when the cam timing changes, i have found. But its really because the spark timing is out and not performing at its best. But it doesnt quite work like vtec systems im afraid. The cam timing is set ecu wise, i dont know about mechanically, but im pretty sure it is.

Ive never been a fan of the vtec system, you spend ages getting onto the power band, and then its over. Someone once likened it to bad sex....spending ages to get there, then withing a second its over lol.

[BOK]

Ive never been a fan of the vtec system, you spend ages getting onto the power band, and then its over. Someone once likened it to bad sex....spending ages to get there, then withing a second its over lol.

...then you grab another gear and ride the power band which on my Accord was between 5700 and 8000rpm Once you get it right it is very rewarding- not something you can get used to on your first drive. Get it wrong and it is frustrating...

But if you drive gently (which is hard) surprisingly good fuel economy is possible (which is the whole point of VTEC).

And then there's the sound at full chat

[Zip It]

With VTEC you really need to think ahead and put a little effort into it, VTEC is not for lazy boys. I remember it took many miles to get used to its power delivery and style, put the time in however and that little engine is incredibly rewarding. I've also just achieved 37mpg on a long run - there are not many 200bhp petrol cars that can say the same. Unfortunately, VTEC gets a bad name from those that go for a short drive and give up.

You won't find any VCT controller on the market - and you never will as it simply is nothing like the way VTEC works.

Roll on September when I can get VTEC controller

[BOK]

My 2.2l, 1.5 ton Accord with 2 adult passengers turned in 37mpg on a varied route economy run (offically measured, sealed fuel tank).
Not bad for something with 4 comfy seats, huge boot, 220bhp, 0-60 in 6.5 secs and 145mph flat out.
Try that in your Focus ST

The Puma deserves a VTEC

[Zip It]

The puma would be awesome with a 197bhp engine of the Japanese variety, preferably with a supercharger bolted on for good measure

[BOK]

I just need the money

[scottrennie14]

if u love them so much im sure the honda forums would love to hear from u lot.....

give me some nice torque curves from a vtec engine then yes maybe it might manage to catch up to the duratec, which is regard by many ppl as being the engine of the future, the one to take over the cosworth engine, O maybe that is why cosworth jumped on that band wagon, the cylinder head on the duratec is suppose to be that perfect that cylinder head companys cant get any gains from porting and polishing it, and just like the puma engine will be able to produce a great torque curve. something honda is struggle with because they are going for all out power and an all out rev limit,

and yes the vct and v-tec arent very compareable as the v-tec is like have an extra camshaft (or 2 in some cases IIRC) for when ur over 5000rpm, where as the vct is a much more progressive advance of the inlet cam, if im wrong can someone correct me but the way it works is the fast the engine goes the more oil pressure it produces and the more oil pressure it produces the more it advance the inlet cam and that i believe is way it is varible

die hard ford man lol

[PumaWillis]

Ahh, wicked, cheers all.

I knew it wasn't the same as it's not as harsh a change with a VCT compared with a VTEC. I was just pondering.

[Monkfish]

Fitting higher lift/duration cams would accentuate the effect, especially if the rpm range of the cam (Often called "on cam") matches the point at which the VCT starts to take effect.

[BOK]

As it happens I have been on Honda forums but let's face it, like most pop groups there isn't one make that's good at everything so...

The Puma has it for looks and chassis but Honda has it for engines, hence I'd like to combine the two. VTEC engines seem a popular choice due to superior power-weight ratio and compactness, witness the tuned VTEC Minis and the Ariel Atom.

All out power and all out rev limit is what race cars aim for and that's what Honda aim for with their sports engines. And they do it because they have the engineering standards to build a 9000rpm car that can be driven by your granny and be durable for 200,000 miles. It's designed to be like that, just as Duratecs have better torque. But the difference is you'll struggle to get 25mpg anywhere whearas a VTEC will nearly reach 40mpg when driven gently. Any engine that drinks more fuel really ought to produce a lot more power or else where is all the fuel going? Just how Ford is the Volvo T5 engine in a Focus ST anyway?

I very much dislike the characteristics of diesel engines which is why I like VTEC engines.

Die hard Honda ENGINE man, they build and design all their own engines (except the Honda Concerto diesel sold in France only that had a PSA diesel unit, which was a rebadged Rover 200 and the Honda Crossroad, Japanese market only that was a rebadged Land Rover Discovery I kid you not)

This post has been edited by BOK: 12 March 2008 - 12:37 AM

[scottrennie14]

quess u dont like there cars that much then, my cousin has a civic and they are not good motorway cars as they are very noisy inside the cabin, as there is f*** all sound deadening

[BOK]

they are not good motorway cars as they are very noisy inside the cabin, as there is f*** all sound deadening

They can (and should) take all the sound deadening out if it's a Type-R

Sporty cars should be about feel, response and driving pleasure, not just huge BHP, traffic light grand prix and top speed, comfort takes a backseat against ultimate handling balance. Type-Rs aren't for the average driver, which is why they produce softy 'Sport' versions for those that want it the look but not the feel (definitely not me). Some of us like noisy cars (as long as it's a justifiable noise and not just a leaking back box)

[newts]

I'm with BOK on this one, i've only driven a CTR a couple of times, and dont claim to be an expert driving them, but if ur a fast road car fan, they are exhilerating to drive! Feeling the acceleration as they come on cam is awesome, and correctly timed gear changes see you straight back into the vtec zone and off u go again. Also, Honda have ZERO reported engine failures of the 2.0 iVTEC. Did you also know that the S2000 has the most powerful naturally aspirated 2.0 engine ever made. Again with zero recorded engine failures. That too is awesome.

Ad

[BOK]

I was talking to one of my customers today who is nearing completion of a VTEC powered Mini- running the 2.2litre 220bhp engine out of an Accord Type-R
It's quite a popular conversion but I've never been in one and I can't wait to go out in it

[volcomstone411]

ive never been in a jap car that can bost the smoothness of the 1.7. can we agree on that.

imo its been very well managed.

vtec is im afraid imo an easy way to get power so that cylinder heads dont need to be so effiecient. Just raising the rev band is easy, but it doenst bode well for reliability. Imo its just two different ways of making and engine work, and imo i prefere fords way, because it is easy to drive. And its easy to illistrate

how easy is a fiesta st to drive compared to a civic type-r
how easy is a frp to drive compared to integra type-r
and how easy is a escort cossie to drive compared to an evo

[BOK]

I completely agree that there is more than one method to make an engine give good power...

But some of us do like to at least pretend we drive a race car for the road and the way VTEC works gives you that feel and sound IMO...even if it's low down torque that makes a car faster. It's not just about the speed, it's about the feeling, the emotion.

If you don't get pleasure and enjoyment out of keeping an engine revving to 8000rpm and above by playing with the gearbox, a VTEC is simply not the engine for you

We should be thankful there is at least a choice

. Just raising the rev band is easy

That is very debatable, without having unwanted items poking holes in the side of your engine block.

If I want an easy drive I buy an auto You get used to not being lazy and hone your timing and skills to work with the car. Just like a race car in fact.

My Puma would quite easily leave a 'sleeping' Type-R with it's pants down but it's a different story if you're poised and ready on the cam.

Maybe I'll get a fast Ford (like a Focus RS) when I'm older and a bit arthritic

This post has been edited by BOK: 13 March 2008 - 09:46 PM