Help
Is it me?
Should I have adjusted anything else?
Anyone had similiar experience?
Thanks
K&n Panel Filter - Less Powerr?
#1
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- Location:Gloucester
Posted 31 July 2006 - 07:49 AM
At last got my new K&N panel filter fitted - wasnt expecting huge increase in power as thats only modd to std car. But now seems to be slower ?? Feels like running much weaker mixture ? Plugs look ok ish maybe bit lean? I thought puma had air flow meter and would adjust fuel to suit any invresae in airflow?
Is it me?
Should I have adjusted anything else?
Anyone had similiar experience?
Thanks
Is it me?
Should I have adjusted anything else?
Anyone had similiar experience?
Thanks
[size=4][font=Impact]this must be the place!
#2
Posted 31 July 2006 - 08:01 AM
Hmmm...now i've always wondered if that would happen.... because surley if you let more air in the car will have to use more fuel to even out the mixture, is that right? Or do you need to have the car ECU changed to cope with the extra airflow? (I should now, i'm a trained mechanic..believe it or not! Don't know how i managed to get that qualifacation) 
#3 Guest_SPV_*
Posted 31 July 2006 - 08:06 AM
Right, best way to sort this is to do the following
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
#4
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:20 AM
QUOTE (SPV @ Jul 31 2006, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, best way to sort this is to do the following
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
But i still can't really see how this is gonna help..cos there will still be more airflow...if the car is at factory settings it would have the standard element in...so its gonna still have a weak mixture..is it? I was also thinking that, if you put a performance element in...or an indction kit...then wouldnt the fuel consumption go up loads...because the car would need more fuel to add to the extra airflow, in order to have a suitable mixture...
#5 Guest_SPV_*
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:24 AM
The mixture control is "learnt" via the HEGO analysis of burnt gases in the exhaust manifold.
Its not "remapping the ECU" just changing the burn rate and mixture by small amounts to compensate for ambient air pressure and temperature - otherwise your car would only work at sea level at 20 degress C ( Standard air temp and pressure )
So, by reseting the ECU, you take it back to factory, and it does appear to re learn your new settings faster than just attaching the new filter and leaving it. Must be some onboard algorythm that accelerates learning from factory settings.
Try it, as long as you have the radio code, you have lost nothing
That said, what you should find from the new filter is slightly better mid range response, but no real improvement in top end
Its not "remapping the ECU" just changing the burn rate and mixture by small amounts to compensate for ambient air pressure and temperature - otherwise your car would only work at sea level at 20 degress C ( Standard air temp and pressure )
So, by reseting the ECU, you take it back to factory, and it does appear to re learn your new settings faster than just attaching the new filter and leaving it. Must be some onboard algorythm that accelerates learning from factory settings.
Try it, as long as you have the radio code, you have lost nothing
That said, what you should find from the new filter is slightly better mid range response, but no real improvement in top end
This post has been edited by SPV: 31 July 2006 - 09:25 AM
#6
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:27 AM
I think what i'll do is drive my Puma for a month or so, standard and then probaly get a filter and see what its like...
#7 Guest_SPV_*
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:28 AM
Good idea.
Best to know what you are starting with, and what problems the previous owner neglected to tell you about
Best to know what you are starting with, and what problems the previous owner neglected to tell you about
#8
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:31 AM
Yeh..i think the previous owner was an old man....its got a full service history so it should be ok...(i hope)
I can't wait until i pick it up today!!!
I can't wait until i pick it up today!!!
#9 Guest_SPV_*
Posted 31 July 2006 - 09:32 AM
Hope you have a good dentist, cos you will develop really bad jaw ache from driving it, too many smiles per mile for your own good from the Puma.
I still get it, and I've been driving them for 8 years
I still get it, and I've been driving them for 8 years
#11
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Posted 31 July 2006 - 10:18 AM
I had a PiperX panel filter in FRP351 and felt that it slightly improved pickup.
#12
Posted 31 July 2006 - 10:34 AM
Found this somehow, http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/gentune.htm - skip to the "AIR FILTERS" bit. Quite a good read.
VX Vectra-C CDTi SRi 150
#13
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- Location:Gloucester
Posted 31 July 2006 - 11:23 AM
QUOTE (SPV @ Jul 31 2006, 09:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, best way to sort this is to do the following
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
1) Make sure you have your radio security code
2) Disconnect the battery and leave off for at least 30 mins (longer is better)
3) reconnect the battery.
Historical evidence over last 8 years on here seems to show it resets the ECU back to factory settings, you may find then that the car is more responsive
Thanks - I will try that tonight when i get home . Let you know if that sorts it.
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#14
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Posted 31 July 2006 - 11:49 AM
The fuel mixture is decided by the ECU, not the air filter.
#15
Posted 31 July 2006 - 04:25 PM
Yeh...i get that....but if there is more air entering the engine, surley more fuel will have to be added to compensate for this...or will the ECU control the amount of air added aswell?
QUOTE (J4JOE @ Jul 31 2006, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeh...i get that....but if there is more air entering the engine, surley more fuel will have to be added to compensate for this...or will the ECU control the amount of air added aswell?
#16 Guest_SPV_*
Posted 31 July 2006 - 04:26 PM
The Puma does not have an electronic controlled throttle (unlike my Smart ) so all it can control is the amount of fuel entering the system
) so all it can control is the amount of fuel entering the system
#17
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Posted 31 July 2006 - 04:27 PM
on the upper part of your lefthand wheel you have some tubing that belongs to the airfilter ---- take it of and you will notice more power
#18
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Posted 31 July 2006 - 06:12 PM
QUOTE (kuissa @ Jul 31 2006, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
on the upper part of your lefthand wheel you have some tubing that belongs to the airfilter ---- take it of and you will notice more power
You might also notice more water going into your induction system as it'll take air right above the wheelarch
The engine will only take as much air as it needs, there is nothing 'forcing' the air into the induction system. So it's more of a pull than a push system if you like... The filter just makes it easier for the air to be pulled in.
I know this sounds a bit dumb but did you put the filter in the right way up? Worth checking...
#19
Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:06 PM
As BOK states the engine will only use the air it needs. It is quite possible the original filter (if clean) was perfectly ok for all your needs.
The HEGO does not remap the ECU. It adjusts the fuelling under certain circumstances. When you put your foot down your HEGO does nothing, for example. So your engine will run rich/lean depending on the original map and whether your mods have/have not worked. If you run too rich, for too long your HEGO will pack in. The HEGO has no effect on ignition, more or faster air needs ignition changes to get the best out of it!!
The MAF does read airflow, but is calibrated for the standard filter. I recently saw a test where a MAF was reading 20% out after a filter was changed. Your ECU can not compensate for large errors like that. Also, that does not mean it was getting 20% more air.
The oil from you new filter will also find its way onto the MAF hot wire and cause duff readings. These to could cause over fuelling wasting fuel and leading to your HEGO letting go early.
This could be a very expensive modification, you are leaving a lot to chance.
The HEGO does not remap the ECU. It adjusts the fuelling under certain circumstances. When you put your foot down your HEGO does nothing, for example. So your engine will run rich/lean depending on the original map and whether your mods have/have not worked. If you run too rich, for too long your HEGO will pack in. The HEGO has no effect on ignition, more or faster air needs ignition changes to get the best out of it!!
The MAF does read airflow, but is calibrated for the standard filter. I recently saw a test where a MAF was reading 20% out after a filter was changed. Your ECU can not compensate for large errors like that. Also, that does not mean it was getting 20% more air.
The oil from you new filter will also find its way onto the MAF hot wire and cause duff readings. These to could cause over fuelling wasting fuel and leading to your HEGO letting go early.
This could be a very expensive modification, you are leaving a lot to chance.
Wardy
If it's not sideways, it's not my way
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#20
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Posted 07 August 2006 - 10:23 AM
QUOTE (sleepingcat @ Jul 31 2006, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At last got my new K&N panel filter fitted - wasnt expecting huge increase in power as thats only modd to std car. But now seems to be slower ?? Feels like running much weaker mixture ? Plugs look ok ish maybe bit lean? I thought puma had air flow meter and would adjust fuel to suit any invresae in airflow?
Is it me?
Should I have adjusted anything else?
Anyone had similiar experience?
Thanks
Is it me?
Should I have adjusted anything else?
Anyone had similiar experience?
Thanks
Just to let you know disconnected battery over weekend - car is much much better now - back to her old form .
Thanks for the advice !
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