Pumapeople: Frp Dreaded Brake Hum / Droning Issue - Pumapeople

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Frp Dreaded Brake Hum / Droning Issue

#1 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 20 April 2008 - 07:44 AM

FRP Brake Humming/Droning issue


Thought I'd write a little article on this as its not been covered for a while. I remember 3-4 years ago someone would be complaining of this all the time.. lol

First of all I want to refer back to a couple of weeks ago when I had some calipers in for servicing that had ALL 8 pistons completely seized....in order to get the pistons moving I had to undo my brake line, attach them up, and use my servo to get some movement in the pistons..... a bit of a nightmare, but hey, that's another topic laugh.gif

After re-attaching my hose and spraying down my calipers with brake cleaner, I noticed as soon as I went out in the car, within a few miles the dreaded (and really annoying) brake hum appeared!... mad.gif mad.gif

Ggrrr I thought!.... my conclusion of this was that maybe somehow the brake cleaner had spoilt the lubrication of the pistons over the seals or, perhaps it had caused some copper grease to go in the seal area??? very strange as i didn't even remove any pads...all i did literally was fire brake cleaner around the visable piston area.... wacko.gif

The story continues....couple of days later, decided to strip down the calliper in question, re-polish the pistons, clean the seals and clean up the pads etc etc....all was looking good and 'so far so good' on the new stainless pistons too!... no pittng!... bleh.gif

Took the car out and drove up to Wizards Of Nos the next day...and STILL droning on and off like the clappers!......driving me crazy!... mad.gif comp.gif bhaaw.gif

Here are my conclusions to the problem!

1. Condition of the disc and pad shims seem to be the main trigger for this problem!... ..... fitting new pads onto lipped discs may trigger this problem, and also fitting non oem pads without a good shim may also trigger this even worse!...
2. It has NOTHING to do with the condition of the pistons! Or the quality of the movement across the seal....when i had this problem a few years ago new seals and pistons (which was what EVERYONE seemed to recommend at the time) did not solve the problem!.... buying new discs instantly cured the problem
3. Personally, I have only ever experienced this problem AFTER a full caliper service..
4. Out of all the poor condition calipers ive seen and worked on, the owners of such calipers have seldom reported this problem
5. It would appear to me that cleaning the calipers and re-fitting the cleaned sliders etc creates more room in the caliper for the pads to move around! this, coupled with older and slightly lipped discs seems to aggravate the issue even more..
6. Again, poor working and seized caliper pistons generally seem to cause excessive Squeal, not this droning problem!
7. If the noise occurs after a full service, it will probably settle down as the pads find their place again and become more settled on the discs surface. If it doesn't go, skimming the disc may cure it, but new discs may be the only long term fix!

A final tip!.... after a caliper clean, try to keep on the brakes regularly (town driving)... As this will usually get them settled in quicke!. A few country road bedding in sessions is usually a good thing!...

All of this is just my opinion of course. Others may have different views or experiences on the matter.... owners like myself that have had the car for 5+ years now will have almost certainly come across this noise more than once. I would say owners that have the calipers cleaned regularly are far more likely to come across it too

Have fun out there! woot2.gif

Chris
Frp453

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 16 September 2008 - 07:30 PM

Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#2 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:37 PM

I skimmed my disks at the same time as servicing the calipers.
Luckily I have full work shop facilites available to me biggrin.gif

I turned up a alloy disk for my gear stick gaiter yesterday wink.gif
and I'm in the process of doing / getting my gear nob engraved with Wugsy's
build number biggrin.gif

FRP
072

MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#3 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 20 April 2008 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (Dogsbody @ Apr 20 2008, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I skimmed my disks at the same time as servicing the calipers.

FRP
072


this is the ideal scenario i think.... it's shame i can't offer this on site.. sad.gif i have a fairly local contact for the skimming but not somthing that could be done on the same day unfortunatly..

that is very handy... ja_cool.gif

QUOTE
I turned up a alloy disk for my gear stick gaiter yesterday


huh.gif could you do me a couple please... Ben stopped doing them ages ago i think..

Regards

Chris
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#4 User is offline   Dogsbody 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4071
  • Joined: 20-March 05
  • Location:Chippenham and Beyond

Posted 20 April 2008 - 01:59 PM

QUOTE (eldoodarino @ Apr 20 2008, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
huh.gif could you do me a couple please... Ben stopped doing them ages ago i think..

Regards

Chris


Are you at RS day?

I have about 4" of alloy bar left.
I will knock a couple up now.
4hrs of current shift left rolleyes.gif

Two made up biggrin.gif
Graham

This post has been edited by Dogsbody: 20 April 2008 - 02:14 PM

MK4 XR3i
Mk3 XR3i
R Reg 1.7 Puma
T Reg 1.7 Lux Puma
Now its Racing Puma 072

Graham

Posted Image

#5 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 12 May 2008 - 08:55 PM

Iv'e had to update this thread a little as new experiences have come to light... laugh.gif

for the last couple of weeks after doing my first post on this thread, my brakes have been howling to and from work every day... been driving me potty! comp.gif mad.gif

so yesterday, took the calipers off and decided to take another look at the setup.... The calipers were removed and only got a quick clean as i knew they were spot on...

my pads were looking a right mess... laugh.gif the pistons had cut there way through the backing pads /shims that i'd applied ages ago.... and instead of changing them when i last messed with the brakes i just slapped on a little more copper grease thinking that would do the job...tut tut.. biggrin.gif also one of the metal backing plates off my Pagids had actually come off the pad which wasn't helping either....

so i cleaned up the pads, scrubbed them down on Garnet paper and re-shimmed them.....

done around 80 miles today to and from Rugby and not a peep out of them.... perfect again... ja_cool.gif

i'm hoping this is all thats needed as i skimmed the discs last season and they are still in pretty good nic...

I think the shim clearly plays an important part on the FRP brakes in keeping the pad consistently 'settled' in the caliper ... Ford/Alcon must have realised this early on as the pad setup was clearly changed to incorporate the double sided sticky shim..... it's interesting that the sticky shim has been used here as it must surely keep the pads in a more 'settled' place within the caliper which reduces most of the noise issues associated with this setup....

I remember years ago when i first had this problem i really was very angry that the car would have such a problem..... as it seemd to be something that NO OTHER road car suffered from... wacko.gif wacko.gif

Hope this helps out a few others in understanding this problem....

Regards

Chris
frp453

This post has been edited by eldoodarino: 21 May 2008 - 09:30 PM

Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#6 User is offline   W4FRP 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 74
  • Joined: 30-April 07
  • Location:Mansfield

Posted 23 May 2008 - 09:38 AM

Hi Chris

I have been suffering the hum recently too and found one of the nearside pads was very tight in the caliper and suspected that this was causing the problem. I have resolved this and given them a good clean out, but still get the hum now and again. I notice though that there are no shims behind my pads - if you think this can contribute to the problem, do you know best place to get hold of a set ?

Cheers

Andy

#7 User is online   eddie0826 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: 19-May 08
  • Location:North East

Posted 23 May 2008 - 10:31 AM

I have this problem aswell, thats why i took my FRP off the road coz i was not enjoying driving it and thought everything had to be replaced after just replacing pads! pistons, disks and pads are about a grand so cant do it at the mo but after reading this post, i guess the shims may solve the problem! I bought my pads from pumaspeed, should they already have a shim on it or do you diy it?

#8 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 23 May 2008 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (W4FRP @ May 23 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Chris

I have been suffering the hum recently too and found one of the nearside pads was very tight in the caliper and suspected that this was causing the problem. I have resolved this and given them a good clean out, but still get the hum now and again. I notice though that there are no shims behind my pads - if you think this can contribute to the problem, do you know best place to get hold of a set ?

Cheers

Andy


the pad should'nt be solid in the caliper.... corrosion issues usually cause this as the abutment fittings (sliders) become more and more warped...!

If there are no shims fitted, this will certainly aggravate this problem ...

I think this problem should have been discussed more in previous years!... it's somthing that almost every owner will encounter and more to the point it's VERY frustrating ranting2.gif i suspect it's a car 'pride' thing... unsure.gif bleh.gif

as i said previously, Ford/Alcon were quite quick to pick up on this issue in the early days and as we all know, they skimmed the pad and fitted the double sided sticky shim.... that doesn't mean that other pads can't be used but it does mean that attention to the backing pad is still needed for a trouble free setup....

ja_cool.gif

Chris
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#9 User is offline   Wildcat 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 216
  • Joined: 17-April 10

Posted 01 July 2010 - 03:53 PM

I've been having this trouble as well. Just the other day the exact same howling noise started coming from the front. I also found the steering wheel vibrated slightly when it was happening. At times it went straight through my head and made the car very, very stressful to drive. :head: I also noticed that most of the time it stopped every time I hit the brakes, but then started up again when I let go and gained speed. I thought I was the only one who was suffering from it, which was even more worrying! :phew:: It seems to have stopped now. The garage told me that the front left hand brake was seizing. They said that everything else was okay, including the disks and the pads themselves. After releasing the brake and after cleaning them up it seems to be very good today. Very silent and I had a really nice ride home! :D

This post has been edited by Wildcat: 01 July 2010 - 03:56 PM


#10 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 01 July 2010 - 07:23 PM

Quote

The garage told me that the front left hand brake was seizing
:lol:

If you've just cleaned them, i suspect it will come back to haunt you again...

Quite often a disc and pad change (or skim)...and a full caliper service is enough to put it to bed....providing the new pads are slightly bonded to the pistons when fitted....

let us know how you get on...

:beer:
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#11 User is offline   Wildcat 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 216
  • Joined: 17-April 10

Posted 28 July 2010 - 05:43 PM

Took it for a run today and, would you believe it, the bloody noise is back! :angry: :head: It started at about the same distance too! It wasn't happening as often as before, but it's still there. I think I'll take it to a brake specialist when I get a chance.

This post has been edited by Wildcat: 28 July 2010 - 05:43 PM


#12 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:54 PM

If you can get it over to me i'll sort it... it is frustrating...it's not doing any harm tho ...just turn up the radio a tad.. :)

are the discs worn or new..?? what pads you using etc..?

Chris
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#13 User is offline   Wildcat 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 216
  • Joined: 17-April 10

Posted 28 July 2010 - 11:29 PM

I was told in town that there's still a lot of wear in the disks. I've got absolutely no idea what make the pads are though. All I know is that they weren't humming at all when I bought it and brought it back from Swindon to Exeter. They've only been humming since I had my MOT done and the garage took it upon themselves to clean out the brakes.

#14 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:12 AM

You can often get the humming after a brake clean...as the pads have more freedom to vibrate....

if the discs are down to minimum thickness the hum can be hard to cure unless a disc change is done....choice of pad and how they are fitted makes a huge difference tho... :good:

Regards
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#15 User is offline   Wildcat 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 216
  • Joined: 17-April 10

Posted 29 July 2010 - 07:35 PM

What pads do you suggest?

#16 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:39 PM

I use a pad by Textar, but i do some work on it to replicate the original style shimming.... basically corner them off, and tack them onto the pistons....

:good:
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#17 User is offline   paulwoodford 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: 20-October 05
  • Location:East Yorkshire

Posted 21 June 2011 - 06:44 AM

Are we talking about the squeal from the brakes that makes the car sound like a double decker bus? If so, it's nothing to worry about - all of our rally cars have done it from cold, once the brakes are hot it stops; same goes for the FRP.
Ex-owner of W38 CPU, THE Ford Racing Ka...now proud owner of a FRP

www.teamwoodspeed.com
www.specialstage.co.uk

#18 User is offline   eldoodarino 

  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6257
  • Joined: 12-March 03
  • Location:Nottingham

Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:02 AM

no, thats not the issue...

it's a droning noise that sounds like a knackered wheel bearing, even when your not touch the brake pedal..

:good:
Wizards Of Nos 60hp progressive delivery.... yeah baby yeah :-o
Denso Iridium Plugs
Helix Clutch
Mobil 1


#19 User is offline   paulwoodford 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 150
  • Joined: 20-October 05
  • Location:East Yorkshire

Posted 21 June 2011 - 09:29 AM

View Posteldoodarino, on 21 June 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

no, thats not the issue...

it's a droning noise that sounds like a knackered wheel bearing, even when your not touch the brake pedal..

:good:


Ah gotcha :)
Ex-owner of W38 CPU, THE Ford Racing Ka...now proud owner of a FRP

www.teamwoodspeed.com
www.specialstage.co.uk

#20 User is offline   Dave93 

  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 124
  • Joined: 19-July 09

Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:26 PM

Hi there, can't believe my luck driving home I have now noticed the dreadded drone, I know I'm in need of some new pads and discs so hopefully that will sort it!

Are you back to servicing chris, the master of all that is Alcon ?
Ps what do people think of the green stuff pads?

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic