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More air filter advice - PiperX Viper....

#1 User is offline   bigdave 

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Posted 17 March 2003 - 11:17 AM

Hi there,
Noticed a few recent posts regarding air filters and PiperX viper induction kits. I fitted a PiperX Viper kit to my car about 6 months ago along with a full Magnex exhaust system and have noticed a loss of torque in the low revs. This has been mentioned in recent posts, but what I want to know is what can I do about it?
Will getting my car tuned on a rolling road improve anything? Will getting the car chipped solve the problem?

If I'd known what I know what I know now from everyone's post on air filters, I would have just stuck in a K & N panel filter and moved the induction pipe from the wheel arch down to the front grill.

I've spent too much money on the PiperX to go back now - and to be honest the sound and the pulling power in the higher revs makes it all worth while!

Any responses would be extremely grateful.....

#2 User is offline   hodude 

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 10:25 AM

i agree with big dave! if i knew what i know now then i would i would just replace the filter element and move the induction pipe!

i have a k&n induction kit, but i've suffered loss of torque in the low revs, although it sounds pretty good when u have your foot down on the motorway!

i had someone put it in for me tho' i don't think it was fitted correctly! the original airbox was completely removed - every bit of it! is this correct?

the problem i have is that the engine cuts out when breaking down the gears, especially in third gear, something i really need to sort out! is this a problem with the air flow?? can anybody help me with this????

#3 User is offline   bigdave 

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 01:15 PM

i originally fitted a k & n and only removed the top half of the air box. when it came to fitting the piperX viper i had to completely remove the whole thing! it was a nightmare to fit - involved taking out the inside of the wheel arch!
and not only do i kind of wish i never bothered - but there's another forum going that is making me come to the conclusion that i should have gone for a powerflow exhaust instead of my magnex system! i thought i did a lot of research when i fitted my modified bits - i wish this kind of discussion forum was going back then....

still - can anyone answer my original question? will any form of tuning, chipping or re-mapping the ECU help my low rev loss of torque?

dave

#4 Guest_Matt and Tiggr_*


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Posted 18 March 2003 - 01:19 PM

QUOTE
still - can anyone answer my original question?  will any form of tuning, chipping or re-mapping the ECU help my low rev loss of torque?

dave


Yes, very much so. As I've said elsewhere, there is a finite peak flow of air into your engine. So in theory there is little you can do to improve peak power.

However when it comes to midrange punch, then a correctly set up system will give you more torque/power at a given rev range.

Try Burton Power, as they are a reputable company, and have been around for a very long time

#5 User is offline   RobK 

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 01:26 PM

In my amatuer opinion, the loss of torque at low rpm seems to be caused by a lack of air, probably by the lack of underbonnet air. Ducting air directly to the filter might be beneficial. IMO the best idea would be to keep the standard airbox underneath and do this:

http://www.pumapeople.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=66

(well done digger)

while using Lisa's suggestion to rotate the intake pipe as on FRP.

Having the fueling set up profesionally might help (rolling road) but beware of dodgy garages. Get it done properly..

Not sure about ECU. You could always try asking Superchips: www.superchips.co.uk and email them from the site. They have a new product that plugs in directly to the diagnostics port and doesn't need to be set up. It's reversible aswell, so you could try it out and if it don't work send it back. £290 I think. There's a whole other thread about the pros and cons of ECU chipping else where in engine mods, so I wont getin to that here, but have a read first.
RobK - Dublin
1998 Red 1.7 Vct
Dirty Picture

#6 User is offline   hodude 

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 01:53 PM

and does anyone know why my engine cuts out in third gear when i brake down the gears??

it only started happening after i put in the filter...

#7 Guest_Matt and Tiggr_*


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Posted 18 March 2003 - 02:06 PM

Yes, its cos your fuel / air ratio is out.

Think about what the engine is doing. You are using the gears to slow down the engine. This then puts the engine under very little load, but your fuel system still sees that the engine is revolving at a high rpm, as it sucks large amounts of air in. This air/fule mix does not burn that well under these circumstances, as the weight of the car artificially slows down the crank. Now, exhaust fuel then comes out that is fuel rich, and this is detected with the HEGO. This then feeds info back into the ignition system which confuses the hell out of the ECU.

On a standard build, this retard curve is mapped, so the ignition knows what to expect.

It sounds like yours is not responding to this environment properly, and is cutting fuel to the engine to protect the cat.

Tiggr was doing it til i got the map tweaked the other week...
Possibility....

#8 Guest_Matt and Tiggr_*


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Posted 21 March 2003 - 10:31 PM

QUOTE
actually live in york at the mo,  but i'm moving up to tyneside end of month!  dunno where blyth is tho'


Dunno where Blyth is??? Got cracking offshore windfarm (except ones bent now) and a lovely aluminium plant :-)

Does however belong in the best county in England :-)

Chairs

#9 User is offline   jezza 

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 10:18 AM

I think I was a tad harsh on my home town - in the words of a geordie -

Blyth like is a canny like town man like!


#10 Guest_Matt and Tiggr_*


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Posted 22 March 2003 - 07:14 PM

Sok :-)

We had 3 murders within 200 yds of my place in Longbenton, in 4 months!!!

#11 User is offline   Deano 

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 10:12 PM

Going back to the top of this thread,

Loss of low down torque after a filter swap and exhaust change are both to be expected.

Longer inlet / filter tract and more restrictive exhaust systems both help to swell low down torque. If you change / alter this you lose out in order to gain as the rpm's rise.

You cannot have both, if you must try you need to have a full ECU swap for one that can be fully mapped on a RR to you car's requirements, but to have this done well and to pass an MOT will cost one arm and both kidneys, i would suggest you live with the niggles.


As for the fact your engine has a finite limit for air demand, yes it does in standard form. Your filter is no longer restrictive so you move to the next weakest link, probably throttle body and or inlet manifold, after this it will usually follow, cams and lastly head (ports and chambers) you have not by any means reached the limit of the engines maximum capabilites.

Look around MG ZR (1.8 litre 158 BHP) variable valve timing.

Stock 1.8i VW Passat 125BHP. etc etc............

I have seen a lot of people on here saying the 1.7 litre engine was tuned to its max by Yamaha, its power output is VERY average, it would have been tuned with warranties and emisions in mind not power.

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