[gsiire]

hi guys,

i had a bit of an accident in the GF's 1.7 VCT Puma recently. I have replaced it with a different car and have decided to repair and track the Puma.

depending on how it goes i am thinking of entering the Time Attack Series here in Ireland. I am just wondering does anyone who where I can get a bolt in roll cage for a Puma?

Thanks

[Turby]

Safety Devices do a bolt in one for the Puma.
http://www.safetydevices.com/index.php?opt...1&Itemid=50

There might be others as well.

[00fergie]

i'm lookin for one as well but cant see where to buy it on that site i'm i just being dumb or is it not there ?

[Turby]

Have you tried ringing them and speaking to someone ?

[TURBOHIGGINS]

Have you tried ringing them and speaking to someone ?

should have a new shell complete with weld in roll cage ,
cage cost 600 pounds and got tiged in.
shell is brand new.

[budd]

Demon Tweeks Motorsport section list cages for the Puma, I'll probably go for one of the DIY kits and weld it in myself

This post has been edited by budd: 24 April 2009 - 09:17 PM

[warrenpenalver]

bad idea unless your experienced in welding roll cages. there is a correct sequence for assembly and welding of a roll cage as otherwise you will find you cant get access to the tops of the tubes in roof etc to do full 360 degree welds.

[yippeekiay]

I'd have thought Tig would sort out most tight situations as very little space is needed if pushed. Although, not many peeps can Tig as easily as Mig or Mag.

Thinking I might have lost a few people there...they might end up thinking Zig & Zag....lol

This post has been edited by yippeekiay: 23 April 2009 - 11:17 PM

[00fergie]

done some research on this and i think this one is good http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcage/Load...type=Multipoint ????

as yippeekiay says tig is alot better for cages and looks alot better as well. have some practice with tig for a while and see what order the cages fit in the car

[m_kitty]

common practice seems to be to cut the floor away around the feet to get full welds up in the roof.

[warrenpenalver]

You shouldnt need to with most well designed cages as they consider the welding process and assembly in thier design. some works cars they would cut out the roof panel before fitting the roll cage though and even better some cars are basically stripped down to the floorpan, cage welded in then rest of pillers and roof added.

[budd]

common practice seems to be to cut the floor away around the feet to get full welds up in the roof.

This the way I did it in the last cage I fitted, (previous ones were bolt in)it also means you have to double skin the floor when you weld in the floor plates minimising the risk of it punching through the floor in the event of a roll. It's tricky for sure and a reasonable level of welding skill is required but with some care and patience it's possible to do a good job. Also most poeple (myself included) are not building the car for a specific race series so it doesn't have to be FIA or MSA certified it's just got to be strong enough to increase protection for a trackday roll/shunt it only needs to do this once and do it at much less speeds than a FIA certfied cage designed to do, I've done a bit of grass track racing in the past and these cars generally don't have a lot of cash lavished on them so all types of cages are cobbled together usually on mild steel box section rather than CDS and dispite some spectacular crashes with cars often cart wheeling I've never seen anyone badly injured due to the structure failing. I being lucky enough not to be involved in a roll myself but I feel better knowing that at least some effort as been made to increase the level of protection, even if it's simply box section welded in to strengthen the existing factory saftey cell it's got to be better than nothing, it doesn't need to be a WRC rep to do the job.

This post has been edited by budd: 24 April 2009 - 09:18 PM

[Ben RS Turbo]

I Work with Wiechers Sport, and ordered a Welded one homologated with plenty of options.

Have a look at their website

[m_kitty]

Perhaps i should have qualtified my comments. you need to ensure the weld for the joints goes all round the tube, to do this you need to have clear access, hence the cut the floor (or remove the roof) bit.
without the full weld, the cage has a stress raiser that will allow the joint to peel apart, since this joint is very close to your head there is a good chance of getting wacked on the nut by a heavy piece of tube, so I would say having a part welded cage is more dangerous than none.

[warrenpenalver]

or just assemble the cage the way it was designed to be assembled! For example the f2 cage in my old puma was supposed to have roof bars welded before the rear half of cage is built as then you have access and just lift the roof bars into place, already welded fully at the front, into place ready to weld in the rear half. No access problems then and no need to cut floor which is an inefficient way of doing things and adds weight.

[alan12666]

or just assemble the cage the way it was designed to be assembled! For example the f2 cage in my old puma was supposed to have roof bars welded before the rear half of cage is built as then you have access and just lift the roof bars into place, already welded fully at the front, into place ready to weld in the rear half. No access problems then and no need to cut floor which is an inefficient way of doing things and adds weight.

Sorry Warren but that's if I've understood you correctly, that's bad advice - especially if for a competition car. The welds between the main hoop and the A post pillars need to be all the way round the A pillar tubes. The only way to do that is to have holes in the floor of the car I think. You are right that you can weld the rear section together to make a "half cage" for the back of the car, but as far as I'm aware there's no other option for the front section. Certainly with my rally car that's what I had to do - a scrutineer will often check welds go all the way round with a mirror, and insist on holes being cut in the roof if necessary to complete the welds.

If it's for a track day car rather than MSA car you can perhaps take the route you suggest - but if you do have an off, there is an increased risk of the cage breaking and leaving a broken sharp tube end moving around inside the car near your head. In big accidents this can and does happen with motorsport cages if they're not well fitted - cross braced door bars are a particular source of this happening, which is why they are very often gusseted to increased strength, and are sometimes designed as two parallel bars welded together rather than a joined X.

Also cutting the floor doesn't add weight because you should put plates under the cgae tubes anyway to spread the load - which cover the holes. Job done.

[warrenpenalver]

Sorry Warren but that's if I've understood you correctly, that's bad advice - especially if for a competition car.

You dont get me the access at the rear end to do the main hoop all round is better than at the top of the front pillars where theres no space, even with windscreen out. The idea being you weld front fully, then lift front and roof into place, fit main hoop and weld from there.

Obviously the cage has to be designed to enable you to do that and some aftermarket cages may not have thought it through that far.

[volcomstone411]

are bolt on cages as good as regular worked in cages, cos i understood that the strenth of a cage comes from the reinforcing plate that goes under the cage when its bolted to the floor to spread the strngth as opposed to 2 bars that could go through the floor?

[Minishonk]

me personally think there even but offen people say weld in are stiffer but once u have a smack with a weld in cage you are gonna struggle to get the cage out. IMO you wouldnt notice the difference between a bolt in and a weld in inless your in a stupidly light track car

im just going to speak to harry hockley now im sure they do a cage for the puma

This post has been edited by Minishonk: 25 May 2009 - 11:28 AM

[xjairusx]

haha zig and zag, mig mag tig. lol.