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Lightweight Bonnet And Other Stuff Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   geoffthegiant 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 10:01 AM

Hi, just got my first puma and am looking to slowly turn it into a trackday car...

Looking into weight reductions at the moment, it strikes me that the bonnet is pretty damn heavy. Ive seen a couple of pictures on the forum of cars with carbon fibre bonnets, but does anybody know anyone who can have one made up?

Already done:
Lightweight battery,
Spare wheel and tray off,
Carpets, speakers and head lining out,
Lightweight seats.

Looking into:
Air con removal,
Lighter alloys/tyres,
Alternator and water pump tricks...

If any one has experience of any of this and can offer any words of wisdom i would be very grateful.

Regards...

#2 User is offline   MattC 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 10:04 AM

I'm sure people will be along with a definative answer for you, but from previous discussions about weightsaving, the key to
'building' a succesful car is weight distribution as well as weight loss.

A lot of weight can be taken from the back of the car;

Spare wheel and tray
boot carpet
parcel shelf
back seats
lightweight boot with plastic glass

The only problem you then have is that all the weight will be over the front wheels, giving you shed loads of understeer.

#3 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 12:39 PM

Our contact for carbon fibre bonnets / tailgate has gone awol sad.gif

You will find the most expensive part is getting a suitable mould made up.

What about perspex in the rear and side windows ? Also there is a lot of sound deadening that can be removed, along with half the dash and a fair bit of stuff inside the doors, tailgate and bumpers. Radio stuff weighs a fair bit as well.
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#4 User is offline   CONLISA 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 12:45 PM

I know of a guy doing Fibreglass bonnets.......Not sure if it's just a skin or full frame.


#5 User is offline   BenF 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 01:23 PM

one of the former contributors to this site who has an FRP is currently also looking into getting a carbon fibre bonnet - come along to the September Leicester meet and you can compare notes with him wink.gif


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#6 User is offline   geoffthegiant 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE (Turby @ Jul 22 2008, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Our contact for carbon fibre bonnets / tailgate has gone awol sad.gif

You will find the most expensive part is getting a suitable mould made up.

What about perspex in the rear and side windows ? Also there is a lot of sound deadening that can be removed, along with half the dash and a fair bit of stuff inside the doors, tailgate and bumpers. Radio stuff weighs a fair bit as well.


Yep have looked into perspex rear and side windows. I had done this to a previous track vehicle, a honda crx. It is a great weight saving but it did mess with the balance, until I moved stuff about a bit and got the suspension sorted.

Got a bit of a mad idea of just plugging those windows with cf!

Seems that i might have to go for it myself for the bonnet... Fibreglass not carbon though! Think it might take a good few goes...

If that contact turns up, give me a shout!

#7 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 05:54 PM

please keep posting your progress smile.gif

whilst doing the weight saving, has the cam belt already been changed on your 1.7?
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#8 User is offline   Pat_T 

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:34 AM

I have heard aircon removal is difficult but I really want to do it so can anyone explain exactly what is involved? smile.gif
1.7L. ST150 clutch. Shawspeed lightened flywheel. Miltek exhaust manifold & full decat system. Pipercross foam cone filter. Speedline white 17" wheels. Toyo R888s. Weitec coilovers.
Powerflex rear beam bushes. Willwood 4-pots, 280mm dics & HEL braided hoses. Kenwood headunit. OMP: rear strut brace. Oddessy Racing 40 battery.
Corbeau Clubman seats. LUKE harnesses. FRP rear seats. Carbon fibre interior. FRP splitter.
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#9 User is offline   mort666 

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 08:01 AM

it may be different on the 1.7, but I've had the aircon removed from the 1.6 engine I have for the kit car. I believe the biggest problem is that the removal of the pulley means that the next pulley along the length of the belt would end up turning the wrong way or something like that.

I know the guy who runs the kit car company has done a mod to rectify this on my engine before he deliverd it and I would be happy to post pictures of what he has done if it will help at all smile.gif

This post has been edited by mort666: 28 July 2008 - 08:01 AM

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#10 User is offline   geoffthegiant 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:23 AM

QUOTE (mort666 @ Jul 28 2008, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it may be different on the 1.7, but I've had the aircon removed from the 1.6 engine I have for the kit car. I believe the biggest problem is that the removal of the pulley means that the next pulley along the length of the belt would end up turning the wrong way or something like that.

I know the guy who runs the kit car company has done a mod to rectify this on my engine before he deliverd it and I would be happy to post pictures of what he has done if it will help at all smile.gif


I think this is one of my next steps, so i will take some how to pictures...

Anybody running an electric water pump? Davies Craig something or other. So the idea is that the engine no longer has to pull the water pump pulley, freeing up a couple of horses and it has the added benefit of being able to be tuned to keep the engine at a specific temperature whether you are travelling quickly or not. Also can keep pumping coolant round the system after you have turned the engine off...

#11 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 12:32 PM

If you want to remove the aircon pump, its easiest to relocate the PAS pump to the other side of the engine (use one from a non air con car such as Fiesta Mk4) this will ensure the correct cam belt route. You will also need to get the brackets as well - not sure if the two PAS pumps are compatible either.
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#12 User is offline   mort666 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 01:10 PM

I'll try to get some pics of the 1600 belt routing on mine at home tonight when I get in from work.


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#13 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 07:18 PM

I've got a fibreglass bonnet skin sitting in the shed at home... PM me if interested smile.gif
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#14 User is offline   geoffthegiant 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE (Turby @ Jul 29 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got a fibreglass bonnet skin sitting in the shed at home... PM me if interested smile.gif


Thanks Turby!

Ok, so I got a quote for some carbon bits and thought i would share...

"Making the moulds takes the most time and materials, we could mould a bonnet (if you were to supply a perfect original) for £1250. Once moulds are made, we can then make the carbon fibre or fibreglass part. A fibreglass 'race spec' skin could be made for as little as £195. A fully carbon fibre, full replica bonnet would be £495. There would also be a few options/prices in between."

I suppose with enough interest the cost wouldnt be too outrageous...

#15 User is offline   happy-kat 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:23 PM

if Turby has a skin is that not the mould?
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#16 User is offline   geoffthegiant 

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Posted 29 July 2008 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (happy-kat @ Jul 29 2008, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if Turby has a skin is that not the mould?


I think a skin is still created from a mould?

#17 User is offline   ally frp364 

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 10:10 PM

Easiest way to remove aircon is to fit exact components from a 1700 puma with no aircon and move PAS pump to rear of engine as already stated by Turby. One thing I have learned while modifiying my fords is that if ford have already done it then don't waste your time doing a custom conversion when you can get all parts off the shelf. I am currently looking into removing my air con compressor unit and doing it the ford way i.e buy genuine 1700 non aircon parts : belt : PAS bracket : PAS pipe work and that should be it! I hope.
Can I ask what battery you used? how much? where to buy and is it a straight swap. Was considering putting in back of car as there are no seats anyway and thought might be better weight distribution possible exactly over rear axle. Any comments please

#18 User is offline   doubleg 

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:22 AM

With regards to the bonnets. We do kevlar, carbon fibre and glassfibre regularly.

Is the carbon bonnet they have quoted you for exposed weave or gel coat?

I've done a few sums based on rough sizes of the bonnets from some drawings I have.

If the interest is there for this, I would be able to provide the standard type Puma bonnets in either glassfibre, carbon fibre with exposed weave or carbon fibre gel coat.

Based on the sums I have done this morning I would expect the following:

Mould £587.00
Fibreglass Bonnet c/w internals and facility to mount to standard hinges £176.
Carbon fibre bonnet c/w internals and facility to mount to standard hinges (exposed weave) £435.
Carbon fibre bonnet c/w internals and facility to mount to standard hinges (clear gel coat) £301.

C/w internals is to indicate the above are including standard type crossbars etc. so the bonnet looks as close to the original as you are likely to get and they will look like a standard bonnet.

Timescale wise from receiving a good bonnet I would be looking at around 10 working days or so to get the moulds spot on then the first bonnets starting to go out to people 7 to 10 working days after that.

Obviously things like tailgates could be done in the same manner, however they are liable to be a little more expensive due to the extra work involved.

We currently already supply Lexan/Polycarb window kits for the Puma as well if they are of use to you.

This post has been edited by doubleg: 14 August 2008 - 10:27 AM


#19 User is offline   Turby 

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:47 PM

I would have expected the carbon fibre exposed weave bonnet to be less than the one with a clear gel coat ja_stupid.gif

The fibreglass bonnet I have is "motorsport spec" ie its just a skin and needs a bit of work to finish off and some way of attaching to the car. Weight is around 6Kg which is approx 10 Kg saving on the standard steel bonnet.

My carbon bonnet skin weighs in at just under 2Kg - 2x2 twill prepreg with foam core and has been autoclaved (ie not wet lay up)

You're right about the tailgate as well - it takes two skins / moulds to form one of those... so around double the cost I guess ?

This post has been edited by Turby: 14 August 2008 - 12:52 PM

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#20 User is offline   doubleg 

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 01:15 PM

Re: the exposed weave versus gel coat prices. The cost in the exposed weave comes from the amount of time required to get it looking right. It's not just a case of making the bonnet and leaving it, a huge amount of time is needed polishing and coating it so it is smooth and the weave shows though. Strictly speaking it isn't actually exposed it is just visible.

The bonnet also requires two moulds to include the internals, the extra cost in the tailgate would purely be down to it being a more complicated shape (relatively) compared to the bonnet.

I've always been very anti purely using skins, they tend to end up flexing more often than not. Just my personal opinion, hence we predominantly do them with the internals bracing incorporated.

The fitment on ours is direct to the standard hinges. No work would be required to attach them.

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