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Or thats what the Mail will probably say...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7474801.stm
Bit over the top if you ask me.
Well Thats It - Blue Eyed White Middle Class Males Are Now Going To Be Illegal
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#2
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:30 PM
It should be 'tool for the job' rather than 'job for the tool' or something along those lines... 
#3 Guest_Tiggr_*
Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:33 PM
Exactly.
I agree with equal pay, that should not even need legislating, should be a matter of course, but positively discriminating against a male because not enough women have applied for a job, or giving a junior school teaching job to a bloke over a woman for the same reasons is social engineering gone mad.
I agree with equal pay, that should not even need legislating, should be a matter of course, but positively discriminating against a male because not enough women have applied for a job, or giving a junior school teaching job to a bloke over a woman for the same reasons is social engineering gone mad.
#4
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:36 PM
Whatever happened to having the "Best Person for The Job" regardless of sex/age/race.... it's Madness!
#5
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:42 PM
True equlilibrium is an unattainable goal, even nature can't achieve it so whoever got the idea a bunch of bored, overpaid 'big wigs' could ever do it?
Most people who complain about 'inequality' are actually the source of the problem, all the rest of just manage to get on OK...
Most people who complain about 'inequality' are actually the source of the problem, all the rest of just manage to get on OK...
#6
Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:56 PM
thought it was jolly stuipid too. I like your first response Colin, spot on really. Why do we need legislation to protect a few from a few rogues who would employ who they like anyway type thing.
This is going too far and I don't think actually helps.
Could potentially stifle economy if every employment instance was taken this way literally
This is going too far and I don't think actually helps.
Could potentially stifle economy if every employment instance was taken this way literally
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#7
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:04 PM
I think employment law does not go far enough - it allows discrimination against people who do not breathe...
mind you, it could be that they simply don't apply for the jobs
mind you, it could be that they simply don't apply for the jobs
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#8
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:09 PM
QUOTE (BOK @ Jun 26 2008, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It should be 'tool for the job' rather than 'job for the tool' or something along those lines...
Couldn't say it better myself.
The bill is crackers in my opinion. Surely apply discrimination, to cure it is a severely messed up idea?
#9
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Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:23 PM
QUOTE (BBC Website)
Equality minister Harriet Harman has set out plans to allow firms to discriminate in favour of female and ethnic minority job candidates.
So to promote equality that means being able to discriminate against non minorities & males? How exactly does that make sense. I hope being ginger counts as being part of a minority 'cos I'll be okay then!
This post has been edited by Mork of Ork: 26 June 2008 - 04:24 PM
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#10
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Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:41 AM
i couldnt believe it when i heard it - pc gone mad
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#12
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:45 AM
It's really not what people are reading into it, all it is saying that it is OK to employ someone on the basis of race/sex/whatever when they are otherwise equally matched.
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#13 Guest_Tiggr_*
Posted 30 June 2008 - 11:51 AM
So you have say 50 jobs, and 100 applicants, 2 for each post.
Each applicant is equal to the other for that job,
Under this proposal, all jobs would be given to either female or ethnic minority candidate.
What bit of that is not positive discrimination?
Each applicant is equal to the other for that job,
Under this proposal, all jobs would be given to either female or ethnic minority candidate.
What bit of that is not positive discrimination?
#14
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 01:39 PM
It gives the option of picking the female or ethnic minority candidate so Harmann carps on about.
Free will also gives us that option so why bother with the legislation? What in law currently stops the headteacher from taking on a bloke to level the sexes in their team?
It is the MPs trying to create work for themselves when they should keep their big noses out!
Free will also gives us that option so why bother with the legislation? What in law currently stops the headteacher from taking on a bloke to level the sexes in their team?
It is the MPs trying to create work for themselves when they should keep their big noses out!
#15 Guest_Tiggr_*
Posted 30 June 2008 - 01:49 PM
The crux is that if a female or minority is not chosen, then that candidate will have the right, set in law, to show that the company taking on the candidate has breached the new employment regulations, and therefore can be prosecuted.
Its an evil proposal and should be binned without delay. The best candidate should be the best candidate, and if its a draw between two that are perfect then the final choice should be made on the way that the successful candidate fits in with the team they would be working in.
As with all anti discrimination law, its fundamentaly flawed, in much the same way that whilst Human Rights legislation is in theory, a leveller of men, it is primarily used by those that deserve no rights...
Its an evil proposal and should be binned without delay. The best candidate should be the best candidate, and if its a draw between two that are perfect then the final choice should be made on the way that the successful candidate fits in with the team they would be working in.
As with all anti discrimination law, its fundamentaly flawed, in much the same way that whilst Human Rights legislation is in theory, a leveller of men, it is primarily used by those that deserve no rights...
#16
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:16 PM
QUOTE (Tiggr @ Jun 30 2008, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you have say 50 jobs, and 100 applicants, 2 for each post.
Each applicant is equal to the other for that job,
Under this proposal, all jobs would be given to either female or ethnic minority candidate.
What bit of that is not positive discrimination?
Each applicant is equal to the other for that job,
Under this proposal, all jobs would be given to either female or ethnic minority candidate.
What bit of that is not positive discrimination?
No that is not correct. There is nothing that says the minority candidate has to be given the job. Even the BBC website makes light of the fact that it could be a male given preference to work in an otherwise female dominated environment, or a Caucasian given preference to work in an otherwise largely ethnic environment.
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Weitec GT Coilovers, Powerflex bushes, Milltek full FRP exhaust, 280mm front brakes
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Low slung, taught, powerful and stops on a dime.
#17 Guest_Tiggr_*
Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:39 PM
Ok, agreed in that respect.
Here, so I dont give the idea Im sexist.
Two PGCE grads apply for first teaching post in a primary school in East Cumbria.
Both candidates came top in their class, and have identical skills, outlook etc.
Candidate 1.
Male, middle class, from London. Parents are pillars of community, and he's an all round nice guy.
Candidate 2.
Female, working class from next village to the one where the job is. Had to work hard to fund Uni place, but accepts that with no malice to those more fortunate. Lives with parents as cannot afford own place.
Now under current guidlines, if both candidates were equal, then purely on environmental grounds, the female candidate would in all likelyhood be offered the job. Not because of her background, but because she already lives locally.
Under proposed changes, the LEA would have to offer the post to the male candidate because of the "imbalance" in male / female primary school teachers.
Does that make any rational sense at all? Yes, bit of a shit that the male candidate didnt get the post, but perfect sense that as an equal ability candidate, the woman got it as she lived next door.
What sense is there in the LEA being forced to take on the male just because its deemed "PC" to have the balance? He has to move, and the female candidate ends up looking further afield.
Now before I get the economics of the open market quoted at me, look at the logistics. 2 People now have to move further afield because of this regulation. Are we not supposed to be thinking about the environment here? and add to that the ability for local people to be able to afford to live when they were brought up? ( ask any twenty something Cumbrian if they can afford to buy a house in the Lake District... )
So on many fronts, this is just plain stupid legislation.
Here, so I dont give the idea Im sexist.
Two PGCE grads apply for first teaching post in a primary school in East Cumbria.
Both candidates came top in their class, and have identical skills, outlook etc.
Candidate 1.
Male, middle class, from London. Parents are pillars of community, and he's an all round nice guy.
Candidate 2.
Female, working class from next village to the one where the job is. Had to work hard to fund Uni place, but accepts that with no malice to those more fortunate. Lives with parents as cannot afford own place.
Now under current guidlines, if both candidates were equal, then purely on environmental grounds, the female candidate would in all likelyhood be offered the job. Not because of her background, but because she already lives locally.
Under proposed changes, the LEA would have to offer the post to the male candidate because of the "imbalance" in male / female primary school teachers.
Does that make any rational sense at all? Yes, bit of a shit that the male candidate didnt get the post, but perfect sense that as an equal ability candidate, the woman got it as she lived next door.
What sense is there in the LEA being forced to take on the male just because its deemed "PC" to have the balance? He has to move, and the female candidate ends up looking further afield.
Now before I get the economics of the open market quoted at me, look at the logistics. 2 People now have to move further afield because of this regulation. Are we not supposed to be thinking about the environment here? and add to that the ability for local people to be able to afford to live when they were brought up? ( ask any twenty something Cumbrian if they can afford to buy a house in the Lake District... )
So on many fronts, this is just plain stupid legislation.
#18
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 07:49 PM
No, there is no obligation to offer a post to redress any perceived imbalance. There is merely a legal channel through which to do so if any employer wants to.
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Weitec GT Coilovers, Powerflex bushes, Milltek full FRP exhaust, 280mm front brakes
Low slung, taught, powerful and stops on a dime.
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Low slung, taught, powerful and stops on a dime.
#19
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Posted 30 June 2008 - 09:18 PM
That was what I was saying too. I have not ead the hogwash that is the legislation but what I have seen reads as if they have the option but not that it is mandatory.
I just cant see how it would then metter at all? You already have that right which makes me quite suspicious. Just another meddling breach of peoples (or businesses) freedoms.
I just cant see how it would then metter at all? You already have that right which makes me quite suspicious. Just another meddling breach of peoples (or businesses) freedoms.
#20
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Posted 01 July 2008 - 06:41 AM
So to sum up; if it's not a legal requirement, it's useless, and if it is, it's stupid.
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