[kingswoodjohn]

Apologies if I appear a bit pompous in my first post peeps, but I'm desperately after hard facts rather than views/opinions
I have searched the website forums but end up confused rather than sorted

I'm in the process of buying a 1.7i Ford Puma Lux - one of the last they made (2001). Mileage is 73K. General chat says the cambelt change (typical Ford) is 10k miles or 10 years; the experts here on Pumapeople say 50K or 5 years. My local Ford Main dealer tells me (phoned them today) it's 80K or 5 years.
1. What should I believe?
2. If the cambelt has not been changed and the dealer says "No need" does anyone know how I stand regarding forcing the issue or comeback if the cambelt does let go after I've bought the car?

Best regards
John.

[happy-kat]

Welcome
No expert on Pumapeople would say 50k or 5 years as that is wrong.
The 1.7 is 5 years or 80k miles, which ever occurs first. That Puma is well over due.
Where would you stand if it broke, empty wallet!
Ford changed the interval as there were failures. But all the orginal documentation was obviously printed by then, so old paper work will say the wrong interval for the 1.7.

Sticky in General Messages
http://www.pumapeopl...showtopic=13895

[pumapilot]

Your Ford garage is right, 80k or 5 years - whichever comes first.

The cambelt interval was changed on Fords eTIS in November 2004, unfortunately the Pumapeople copy of this has disappeared due to recent website changes.

If you want to support local independant garages, in preference to paying Ford prices, then click the Puma garage list link in my signature block.

[kingswoodjohn]

Thanks guys

I've bought the car (love it already!) and the consistent advice is "Don't take any chances at 80K and nearly 10 years - get the cambelt done unless you know it's been done recently!" so that's what I'll do - and, yep, I've checked the Puma garage list and found a local outfit which I'll contact without delay.

By the way, the only criticism of the Puma I've seen is "Poor rear window visibility!" but as I've just laid up my trusty '91 Honda Civic CRX the Puma view is panoramic - everything's relative!

Best regards to all.
John.

[pumapilot]

kingswoodjohn, on 08 December 2010 - 10:02 PM, said:

By the way, the only criticism of the Puma I've seen is "Poor rear window visibility!"

Years ago there was a programme on our local Meridian ITV station, called the motor show, the driver was Tim Harvey, Touring car driver as he was then, he also criticised the lack of rear visibility, trying to reverse a Puma by looking back over his shoulder.

A few weeks later i was marshalling at a TOCA test day at Thruxton, and saw Tim in the pit lane, i told him it was easier to reverse a Puma using the door mirrors, but as he was a racing driver, i doubted if he knew how to use them.

[kingswoodjohn]

Back to the cambelt

My local Ford dealership quoted me £350 all in for cambelt (+ tensioner & auxiliary belt) replacement. Forgot to ask about water pump replacement (done at the same time) but based on the info below I'd estimate up to another £150 = £500 in total.

Nortree Motors, Melksham (from the Puma garage list) quoted as follows:
Cambelt, tensioner, auxiliary belt and water pump replacement = £400 all in for non-Ford parts.
Cambelt, tensioner, auxiliary belt and water pump replacement = £500 all in for genuine Ford parts.

The water pump (to compare Ford with Nortree) is £100 Ford and £50 non-Ford (just the part cost, no labour).

So the only question really (accepting that I bite the bullet and get the work done) is "Should I go for genuine Ford parts or bank the saving and go with non-Ford parts?" Interestingly, Nortree don't offer an opinion other than to say that they've had no problems with using non_Ford parts.

What's the Pumapeople view peeps?
John.

[YOG]

You should fit a new rocker cover gasket as well.

[symonh2000]

kingswoodjohn, on 09 December 2010 - 08:21 PM, said:

Back to the cambelt

My local Ford dealership quoted me £350 all in for cambelt (+ tensioner & auxiliary belt) replacement. Forgot to ask about water pump replacement (done at the same time) but based on the info below I'd estimate up to another £150 = £500 in total.

Nortree Motors, Melksham (from the Puma garage list) quoted as follows:
Cambelt, tensioner, auxiliary belt and water pump replacement = £400 all in for non-Ford parts.
Cambelt, tensioner, auxiliary belt and water pump replacement = £500 all in for genuine Ford parts.

The water pump (to compare Ford with Nortree) is £100 Ford and £50 non-Ford (just the part cost, no labour).

So the only question really (accepting that I bite the bullet and get the work done) is "Should I go for genuine Ford parts or bank the saving and go with non-Ford parts?" Interestingly, Nortree don't offer an opinion other than to say that they've had no problems with using non_Ford parts.

What's the Pumapeople view peeps?
John.

My waterpump only cost £28 from a motor factors. I can't see it adding £150 to the cambelt job as it only takes 15mins extra to fit with the cambelt off.

I think you need to shop around, as although I am sure Nortree will do a good job, they are a bit on the expensive side IMO

This post has been edited by symonh2000: 09 December 2010 - 10:21 PM

[pumapilot]

I would use the Ford cambelt kit as advised in the first paragraph of the Puma garage list.

Also as you are in the same area as Dogsbody, a PM to him might help

[jonl6280]

i've got a brand new unused timing belt tool kit for puma if you wanna buy it???

[kingswoodjohn]

Thanks again to all.

After checking around I've decided to go with my nearest Ford Dealership (Reed of Trowbridge). Went in and had a chat and agreed on £462.88 all inclusive (parts & VAT) for Cambelt & tensioner (kit), auxiliary belt and water pump = £40 cheaper than the nearest independent Ford garage (Nortree) who quoted £500. I'll post a follow-up and propose Reed for addition to the garage list if all goes well - work is scheduled for 23rd Dec (= when I will not need the car).

Interestingly Reed said their policy is to not disturb the camshaft/rocker cover gasket unless it is obviously leaking - if it ain't broke don't fix it. So I asked them to advise me if it is leaking and I'll do that job myself over the Christmas break (or wait for warmer weather if leaking is slight!). Nice instructions on this website should make it easier.

I'm anticipating that some Puma People might fairly consider me a numpty for spending this amount of the old spondulics but my son and I are restoring his '85 Mk2 Fiesta XR2 and I've got my '91 Honda CRX in the drive waiting for a bit of tlc - so I just haven't got the time to spend on the Puma and I need it for commuting (ie not off the road for more than a day). I feel OK about choosing the Ford experts to fix it using Ford parts and I can just about afford it.

Best regards to all Puma People - will post again on this thread after the work unless I need to respond to comments.
John.

[symonh2000]

kingswoodjohn, on 10 December 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Thanks again to all.

After checking around I've decided to go with my nearest Ford Dealership (Reed of Trowbridge). Went in and had a chat and agreed on £462.88 all inclusive (parts & VAT) for Cambelt & tensioner (kit), auxiliary belt and water pump = £40 cheaper than the nearest independent Ford garage (Nortree) who quoted £500. I'll post a follow-up and propose Reed for addition to the garage list if all goes well - work is scheduled for 23rd Dec (= when I will not need the car).

Interestingly Reed said their policy is to not disturb the camshaft/rocker cover gasket unless it is obviously leaking - if it ain't broke don't fix it. So I asked them to advise me if it is leaking and I'll do that job myself over the Christmas break (or wait for warmer weather if leaking is slight!). Nice instructions on this website should make it easier.

I'm anticipating that some Puma People might fairly consider me a numpty for spending this amount of the old spondulics but my son and I are restoring his '85 Mk2 Fiesta XR2 and I've got my '91 Honda CRX in the drive waiting for a bit of tlc - so I just haven't got the time to spend on the Puma and I need it for commuting (ie not off the road for more than a day). I feel OK about choosing the Ford experts to fix it using Ford parts and I can just about afford it.

Best regards to all Puma People - will post again on this thread after the work unless I need to respond to comments.
John.

They will have to disturb the cam cover gasket. The timing tool fits on the ends of the camshafts.

If they try and set the timing without it, by not slackening the pulleys the timing will move slightly when the belt is tensioned. This will probably result in some loss of performance and fuel economy.

This post has been edited by symonh2000: 10 December 2010 - 07:45 PM

[kingswoodjohn]

Thanks - will ask them about this now you've armed me with some clear advice
Regards

[YOG]

kingswoodjohn, on 10 December 2010 - 06:59 PM, said:

Interestingly Reed said their policy is to not disturb the camshaft/rocker cover gasket unless it is obviously leaking - if it ain't broke don't fix it. So I asked them to advise me if it is leaking and I'll do that job myself over the Christmas break (or wait for warmer weather if leaking is slight!).

I think they mean if the gasket shows no sign that its been leaking when they remove the rocker, they will just bolt it back on as it was. My main dealer did this when they changed the cambelt at under 6,000 miles, when mine was 5 years old. It went back 2 weeks later, leaking oil over the engine and in the cavities where the spark-plugs are.
It's such a mess to clean up, you're better off preventing it happening by using a new gasket at the beginning.
Mine was replaced under warranty, but the last time I heard, someone was charged around £80 to replace it. Your's should be much cheaper if done at the same time, as the only extra charge should be the gasket cost and time fitting it to the rocker cover. Worth getting a price for this from them, as you would have to buy a gasket, even if you fit it yourself.

[DaveR]

jonl6280, on 10 December 2010 - 09:45 AM, said:

i've got a brand new unused timing belt tool kit for puma if you wanna buy it???

Do you have a pic? and how much? thanks

[jonl6280]

https://mail.google....&disp=inline

DaveR, on 11 December 2010 - 03:13 PM, said:

Do you have a pic? and how much? thanks

sent u a pm m8.

[kingswoodjohn]

Called in to Reeds of Trowbridge (where the Puma is booked in) on the way home tonight to settle this camshaft cover gasket issue.

Chatted with their senior mechanic who agreed that the camshaft cover does come off for a cambelt change but the gasket situation has two options:
1. If the gasket is the type that's bonded to the cover then anytime the cover is removed they do not replace it unless it is clearly broken - and, yes, it's a bit of a pain to replace.
2. If the gasket is the (later) 'disposable' type then it does tend to be replaced but still not as a matter of course - a judgement might be made that it's serviceable.

My Puma is the later type so I asked them to replace the gasket, the cost of which is £23 (no additional labour charge of course).

The main factor, as always for garages. is justifying charges to a customer. In the case of the relatively high cost for the gasket/fitting the garage is used to being asked "Why did you replace it if it wasn't necessary?". It's often perceived as being in the category of "You're just profit making!" if it wasn't leaking or "Why didn't you replace it when you had the car?!" if it leaks afterwards. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess. NOT MY WORDS!
Hoping this adds to the database of knowledge

Best regards
John.

[londonpuma]

kingswoodjohn, on 13 December 2010 - 07:21 PM, said:

Called in to Reeds of Trowbridge (where the Puma is booked in) on the way home tonight to settle this camshaft cover gasket issue.

Chatted with their senior mechanic who agreed that the camshaft cover does come off for a cambelt change but the gasket situation has two options:
1. If the gasket is the type that's bonded to the cover then anytime the cover is removed they do not replace it unless it is clearly broken - and, yes, it's a bit of a pain to replace.
2. If the gasket is the (later) 'disposable' type then it does tend to be replaced but still not as a matter of course - a judgement might be made that it's serviceable.

My Puma is the later type so I asked them to replace the gasket, the cost of which is £23 (no additional labour charge of course).

The main factor, as always for garages. is justifying charges to a customer. In the case of the relatively high cost for the gasket/fitting the garage is used to being asked "Why did you replace it if it wasn't necessary?". It's often perceived as being in the category of "You're just profit making!" if it wasn't leaking or "Why didn't you replace it when you had the car?!" if it leaks afterwards. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I guess. NOT MY WORDS!
Hoping this adds to the database of knowledge

Best regards
John.