[ScubaSteve]

As i understand, if you cut the brown wire from the gearbox speed sender, then you disable the TL in first gear however you lose the speedo working for 1st gear

is there anyway to do it but keep the speedo working?

[poder]

You only lose the speedo in the later versions with digital dash.

[pumapilot]

Torque limiter is there to protect gearbox and drivetrain, only works in 1st gear as you know, so why not quick-change into 2nd gear?

[FlashBastd]

Steve,

Your best bet with this is to change to a TAPE ECU with the FRP map; the limiter is still there but is much less intrusive. Keep your eyes out on eBay for a TAPE ECU, ideally with 2 transponders, then get someone like Tremona to put the map on for you. Should you wish to go for a 4-2-1 later, it will also make things less complicated as it doesn't use the post cat lambda (or the CEL come to that).

[t783vkj]

Is there any other ford g.box that'll fit thats not so puny & dont need torque limiter?.Its all very well using a FRP map,but if your not using a box with spot peened gears 'aint it all gonna go pear shaped.What box was used in the rs2000,or the fiesta & escort turbos?

This post has been edited by t783vkj: 08 May 2010 - 08:31 AM

[Dogsbody]

There is some one on here who "Sprints" a 1.7 Puma Turbo with around 300bhp.
That runs a standard Box and after a few years has only just had any issues with the box.
There are at least two Puma's running Nitrous with no gearbox troubles.

I would just see how it goes before worrying about it.
If its not broken, don't fix it

[happy-kat]

dumping the clutch bypasses the torque limation anyway, so if this is your habit then you have no need to change setup, just wait for it to fail

[t783vkj]

How does the limiter work if dropping clutch by-passes it? & if standard box is good for 300bhp,why did they fit the limiter at all?

[ScubaSteve]

My understanding is the IB5 box, is a fairly strong box, especially compared to the likes of french gearboxes lol

I cant imagine the torque limitation is set to stop damage to the box itself, although im sure it helps. More likely to minimise damage to the clutch and lower arms etc.

Im not a fan of standing start launches, and im not really seeking to disable the torque limiter, it was more out of curiosity, and if there was an easy way might do it, just to regain my lost power in 1st, which is always useful pulling away at roundabout in tight gaps etc

[Dogsbody]

Here is the Turbo one in action clicky Turby is a moderator on here.

I would have thought Ford were more more interested in 100,000 + miles life than 10'000 competition miles and any failures are too many.
If you are going to dump the clutch you are going to break something regardless of traction control etc.
Drive shaft, clutch or box

It's normally 2nd and 3rd gear that get broken in competition as that's the gears that all the power and torque can be used in
1st is just a get you off the line.

[happy-kat]

In answer to various questions on the Pumapeople list, a Pumapeople member back in like 1999 offered the following write up:

1) Torque truncation works by taking the crank speed sensor reading and the road speed reading and by doing a comparison in the ECU it calculates when it is in first gear. This does not require all gear ratios to be programmed in. It is simply a comparison table. You may not like the sound of it, but that's how it works :-)

2)As a history, the IB5 started off as the B-4 in 1978 for the 1.0/1.1/1.3 litre Fiestas (max 60HP). The IB-5 program started in 1996, with closed bearings, bearing D with innering, 1st/2nd and 3rd gear double synchronisation, retuning of 4th/5th gear synchronisation, neutral selection springs in the transmission and hydraulic clutch actuation.

3) Failures. When the 1.7 Sigma SE161 project began (Puma to non-Fordies), durability testing discovered three main flaws with the gearbox.

a ) Final drive gear tooth failure
b ) Reverse gear tooth failure
c ) Bearing D failure (I have no idea what this is)

Other failures experienced were 4th gear crashing, and 1st gear jumping out.

At this time there were two final drive ratios under test - 4.27 and 3.82. At 4.27 the teeth broke off the pinion gear. This was then shotpeened to improve the failure rate. This improved it by 20%, but it still failed. Torque truncation was introduced to limit the torque from 157Nm to 135Nm, and 110Nm in reverse gear (as reverse is lower and hence has a higher loading). Someone made a bloody stupid comment on this list about "how does torque limiting protect the car in 2/3/4/5/ gears". Well, if you have ever ridden a bike with more than one gear, you will know that the torque multiplication goes down as the gear ratio goes up, and hence torque truncation only needs to be on 1st/reverse gears.

The production final gear ratio was chosen as 3.82. This could not be shotpeened for manufacturing reasons (gear size). Without torque truncation on the super accelerated life test, there was a 62% failure rate. With torque truncation this became 100% pass rate.

4) In answer to the question about "how does this protect your gearbox if you rev the engine and dump the clutch?" - it does not. There is no protection on the Puma for this. I asked this question and was told "we expect our customers to have a bit of common sense". The bigger engined Foci do have this problem as they kept breaking driveshafts during development. The solution was to put a peak torque limiter on the car. Basically this is a delay valve in the hydraulic clutch line which limits the speed of engagement. During normal driving conditions this is not noticed, but during stupid driving will allow slip to protect the drivetrain.

5) To a member - whoever told you that the IB5 can take 300 bhp is probably not well informed. If you drive sensibly than your gear box may well last. The testing carried out during car development is deliberately harsh and represents 100,000 miles + of motoring, so I am not going to say to anyone that there gearbox will break without a torque limiter because it is not necessary true.It depends on how you drive it.

However, the IB5 gearbox design torque limit is 135Nm. If someone can tell me what they did to the FRP gearbox I would be interested to know. Also if it is true that the IB5 was used in Fiesta Turbos in the '90s, then I have no answer to that either. The only thing I can think of is that the gearbox was altered for those models, and what with Ford tightening the belt with the Puma, (developed as a cheap-to-make low-volume car) the program costs would not allow extensive, expensive, engineering changes to the gearbox, and hence electronic means were used to allow use of the IB5.

[ScubaSteve]

nice info

[Dogsbody]

I thought Toby's Puma was mapped at 300BHP but turned down to 280BHP to help it last a bit longer.
Around 250 Ib Ft torque.
I'm sure I read it was running a Helix clutch and Quaff LSD in a standard box

[ScubaSteve]

trust me, coming from someones whos previously owned 2 106 gtis the ib5 box is strong compared to them lol, 70k and its time for a new box in the 106, happened to me twice now

[bendunn]

If i was going to disable this limiter i would cut the brown wire and wire in a simple on/off switch to inside the cockpit enableing you to choose when its off

[poder]

bendunn, on 09 May 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

If i was going to disable this limiter i would cut the brown wire and wire in a simple on/off switch to inside the cockpit enableing you to choose when its off

I have this, it makes a lot of difference for my car!
Had it for 3 years now, still use...

An even better version is with a switch engaged by the gear lever, see here:
http://www.pumapeopl...showtopic=82591